On this episode of the Digitally Diverse series we chat with Gloria Chan, Head of Design at Wisr about her career to date, advice for those wanting to start a career in design, what the team at Wisr are currently working on and representation in the design industry. Hope you enjoy the interview!

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Show Notes

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• • Gloria’s LinkedIn

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• Event’s Page

00:00:20:24 – 00:00:40:08
Ellen Bennett
Thanks for joining us for another episode of Digitally Diverse, the podcast where we do a deep dive into the movies and shakers in the tech and design industry. So today we are so grateful to have the lovely Gloria Chan here with us, who is the head of design at Wisr. Thank you so much for joining us, Gloria.

00:00:40:10 – 00:00:43:07
Gloria Chan
Thank you so much for having me.

00:00:43:09 – 00:00:56:05
Ellen Bennett
Okay. Well, I guess for those of you, for those of our listeners that are unfamiliar with yourself, can you give us a overview of who you are and your career to date and what you’re up to?

00:00:56:11 – 00:01:21:21
Gloria Chan
Yeah, sure. I’d love to. So I started out studying design visual communications at uni. I always knew I wanted to be a designer. I just loved drawing and loved creating visuals. And so I interned in a design agency that specialized in newspaper design and editorial design. And that was really great. I got to work on New Zealand, we can herald.

00:01:21:21 – 00:01:51:00
Gloria Chan
So when newspapers were actually a physical thing, working on the design, I’ll be Out magazine, which as an intern was just an amazing project to be a part of. And then I specialized in branding. So as a designer, I moved really deeply into the branding space and specifically large scale rebrands. I’m creating brand identities from scratch again and working with a really small team.

00:01:51:01 – 00:02:15:22
Gloria Chan
So I was just lucky to kind of join an agency where I could basically poke my nose into everything, which is also. And so I developed just a love of creating ideas from understanding people and, and thinking about kind of perceptions of how people, I guess, think about their world and think about the brands they love and ideas that they love.

00:02:15:24 – 00:02:36:17
Gloria Chan
So I did this for a while and a couple of years into my career, I kind of came at a crossroads and decided I’m just going to go out on my own and do this. Freelancing. So I did that while still in Sydney for a few months. And then my boyfriend at the time, who’s not my husband, we thought, let’s move overseas.

00:02:36:17 – 00:03:10:21
Gloria Chan
And so we decided to go to the UK and had nothing planned and kind of went over there and freelanced in branding. And I found myself moving into the innovation space and consultancy. And so from there that’s where I started to manage teams that were mixed kind of designers, brand designers, experience designers, UI, UX, and that really was just a fun place to be and, and kind of evolved into the role that I’m in now as head of design at Wiser.

00:03:10:24 – 00:03:34:07
Ellen Bennett
I love that. And yeah, I think your sounds like your journey was kind of a little bit similar to a lot of people that we’ve had on the podcast before, in that you started in what some would say would be like quite a traditional design space, like branding and going into consultancy and then from there realizing there’s this whole different UX UI world out there.

00:03:34:09 – 00:03:39:22
Ellen Bennett
Was there a particular catalyst for you like getting bitten by that bug?

00:03:39:25 – 00:04:21:21
Gloria Chan
I think to be honest, when I first started out in my career, UX didn’t exist. The options that were presented at the time, you know, as a visual communications graduate, I think editorial design roles were like the dream job. That’s very lucky that I had that experience. But the next best thing was branding. But I think brand UX, even, you know, kind of editorial publishing design, I think it is all really about understanding the user, you know, understanding how someone experiences the information you’re conveying to them, understands the ideas you’re trying to convey in the brand or the feeling of a company.

00:04:21:24 – 00:04:36:21
Gloria Chan
So I would say UX is a very modern idea in the design world, but I think we’ve been doing it throughout all the various industries. So it sort of felt like a natural evolution when I moved formally into it.

00:04:36:23 – 00:04:55:03
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, no, that’s a really interesting take. And I’ve never I’ve never thought of it like that before that you know, the like you as a branding designer, almost crafting that user experience with the brand where now you’ve kind of like moved into more of like it’s like a product user experience. It’s like.

00:04:55:06 – 00:04:56:03
Gloria Chan
From like.

00:04:56:05 – 00:05:05:15
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, no, that’s really cool. And I’d love to hear a little bit more about Wiser and what what you’re doing there. Can you fill us in about what you’re up to?

00:05:05:17 – 00:05:39:28
Gloria Chan
Yeah, definitely. Wise is a fintech and we’re based in Sydney at the Rocks, Beautiful Rocks. And we we call ourselves a purpose driven company because we like to set ourselves apart in the fact that we we give out personal lines, but we also have a high purpose in helping people sort of understand their relationship with money and help them develop skills and give them tools and financial education to think about their financial wellness.

00:05:40:00 – 00:06:02:27
Gloria Chan
So not only, you know, in the present when they get a loan out with us, but how are they taking steps to improve their relationship with money? So I’m really lucky that I have a small team of designers and we work with all parts of the business. We have a few products that we work on, but we work in a really collaborative, cross-functional, different teams across the organization.

00:06:03:02 – 00:06:20:13
Gloria Chan
It’s a great culture because I think everyone has that kind of higher purpose of financial wellness in mind. So it means every time we bring a product out to market or we think of new ideas, we’ve always got that mission in the back of my mind.

00:06:20:15 – 00:06:45:10
Ellen Bennett
Now, that’s great. And it’s really refreshing to hear that. You know, I feel like a lot of fintechs in particular, they love to, you know, talk the talk about how they’re very purpose led and values driven. But it sounds like why the, you know, actually walking the walk as well. So what kind of projects and I know you probably can’t go into specifics, but what kind of like problems are you guys facing at the moment?

00:06:45:10 – 00:06:48:17
Ellen Bennett
Is there anything in particular that you can share with us?

00:06:48:19 – 00:07:36:23
Gloria Chan
Yeah, I mean, I guess the the problems face of financial wellness in itself is just it’s like a wicked problem. It’s so complex. It’s it’s universal. It’s pervasive throughout all aspects of people’s lives. You know, money is is there constantly, whether you’re thinking about it consciously or not. I think the the main purpose of why that is really to attack that problem from multiple perspectives and so specifically, my role as head of design is thinking about how do we create experiences that help people in the short term and that may be as simple as how do we create a really good loan application form that is easy to understand and someone can get through it

00:07:36:23 – 00:08:06:03
Gloria Chan
and complete and know that at the end of their form they’re going to get a decision about whether they get money or not to as big as what is the next solution or idea we can give to Australians to help them think more about the psychology of their money. So my role tends to be quite broad in thinking about aspects of, you know, very detailed usability as well as kind of blue sky thinking as well.

00:08:06:06 – 00:08:18:02
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, that like mix of strategy and like really broad design thinking and then Yeah, Yeah. Are you still, are you still on the tools day to day sometimes.

00:08:18:02 – 00:08:46:20
Gloria Chan
Depends what week you ask me. Lesson less so because to be honest, my team is so good I don’t want to get in their way. We collaborate quite a bit later. Yeah. I mean, I am on the tools in that. I mean, literally this morning I was on Figma, but I’d say I’m probably more into tools such as Miro and thinking about how do we how do we pull a story together?

00:08:46:23 – 00:09:02:19
Gloria Chan
What’s actually the idea and the strategy behind what we’re doing? Because yeah, in terms of delivering dev ready designs, my team at 200 times better than me at doing that and.

00:09:02:22 – 00:09:24:16
Ellen Bennett
I it’s, it’s a good sign of a good leader that you know where other people’s strengths are and to to give them to give them the tools to do what they do best. You mentioned before that you did a degree in visual communication and design. Was there a particular reason why you went down that path? Can you talk us through what your higher education experience was like?

00:09:24:18 – 00:09:56:27
Gloria Chan
Yeah, sure. I mean, this is probably not a great story to tell. I actually at the time had a really nice boyfriend. We were deciding what we were going to study after high school. I was thinking about nursing and design. He kind of pushed me towards visual communications and I’m really grateful that he did actually choosing this come in combination with international studies, which I got to take a year overseas.

00:09:56:27 – 00:10:19:12
Gloria Chan
And that was essentially the reason why I did that combination degree. So in high school I had learned a lot of German and I had really good family in Germany that I had become really close to. So international studies basically let me spend a year overseas in Germany, in a city called Potsdam, which is like a half hour from Berlin.

00:10:19:15 – 00:10:52:15
Gloria Chan
And so I thought, Yeah, I’m going to do this degree so I can do that. But visual communications for me was just an amazing degree. I think it was just so inspiring to be around people who were like minded. And at the time I didn’t think they were like minded. But when I reflect back, I, I realize what a special environment it was that everyone was kind of in this mental state of, I’m just going to absorb as much as I can about communicating visually.

00:10:52:21 – 00:11:15:16
Gloria Chan
I think it’s an interest doing academic kind of path to take, especially for someone like me from an Asian background. And I just loved sort of being in that environment where other people were like, Yeah, this is actually a profession that I can do and I don’t have to be a doctor or a lawyer. And it’s just this prestigious.

00:11:15:18 – 00:11:38:29
Ellen Bennett
Definitely, Yeah, that I’ve never really thought of it that way before in like you’re almost in a, in a think tank for like four years of your life. You just, you just are trying to absorb as much as possible. And super interesting that you mentioned, you know that, you know because of your background it was your was it kind of considered an unusual choice for you to make degree was?

00:11:39:01 – 00:12:10:10
Gloria Chan
I think definitely it wasn’t an unusual choice for I wouldn’t say for my immediate family, but I guess people who we knew around us, you know, other families, other yeah, other people my age from Asian backgrounds, my parents have always been pretty open to whatever I wanted to do. And so I was very lucky in that sense. But yeah, it was I just felt really lucky that that was a degree that I could choose.

00:12:10:10 – 00:12:25:01
Gloria Chan
And yeah, I had the chance to study with a bunch of people who as passionate about being creative as I was, and I got to, you know, learn German as a language and spend a year overseas.

00:12:25:04 – 00:12:35:23
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. How, how is that you were you studying design in Germany or was it more of a like art couple of semesters? What was that like?

00:12:35:25 – 00:13:11:12
Gloria Chan
Yeah, it was an arts couple of semesters. So essentially I could study any topic that I wanted as long as the course was delivered in German. So I, I took on things like philosophy, German literature. And so you like went in the deep end. Let’s pick the hottest things that we cram in in other language. It was just such a great experience because I started at UTS and we just had a really great international studies coordinator and she was like, Look, this year is not about your grades.

00:13:11:12 – 00:13:36:06
Gloria Chan
This is just about being open to learning, experiencing new cultures so you can study whatever you want. I just want you to build relationships and have a good time. And that is the exact mentality I went over with and I am so thankful for that course. Co-ordinator and thankful that that was a degree that I could take part in because it was like one of the best decisions of my life.

00:13:36:06 – 00:14:04:24
Ellen Bennett
I think I love that and so many people who have like traveled and like studied abroad always, they always say like it was, it was really hard, but it was the best decision I’ve made. So yeah, that’s great to hear that, you know, that you’re that’s like one of the most forming times of your life. It seems, is potentially studying abroad or doing a tertiary degree in design.

00:14:04:24 – 00:14:10:19
Ellen Bennett
Is that something that you’d recommend to potential students or people wanting to get into design?

00:14:10:22 – 00:14:34:07
Gloria Chan
Yeah, definitely. I think if you get the chance to travel, if you get the chance to study overseas 100%, you should take it because the world is just so much bigger than what we know in our immediate sphere. Right? So any opportunity to expand your knowledge, to meet new people, to discover new perspectives, I think is a great opportunity.

00:14:34:09 – 00:15:01:01
Gloria Chan
So I would definitely do it. And again, for people starting out in design, I think a tertiary degree is really awesome, but I am not a purist in that. I think you need to have a degree to be a designer. I think a lot of designers, intuitive and sensory people, and I know a lot of great designers who didn’t study design and who now, you know, work in the space and their skills are just as great.

00:15:01:05 – 00:15:23:11
Gloria Chan
Tertiary degrees are great in, I think having the formal kind of theory and knowledge and context of design history. And I found that really valuable. But I think learning tools is something that you can do separately from uni. So I don’t think there’s one path to becoming a good designer.

00:15:23:13 – 00:15:45:21
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, I think I completely agree with all of that. I, I also did with home at uni and I loved it. However, you’re so right. It’s a lot of theory which for some people I personally really enjoyed, but for some people they were just thinking that it was an absolute snooze fest and they just wanted to mess around.

00:15:45:21 – 00:15:49:23
Ellen Bennett
On Illustrator at that time. Young My age.

00:15:49:25 – 00:15:51:00
Gloria Chan
So yeah.

00:15:51:02 – 00:16:17:17
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, you’re so right. You don’t need the qualification to be an absolute design superstar in 2023, which is really nice. But you know, if it is helpful if you are that way inclined. So now that’s, that’s great. And what you touched on as well with learning about other people’s different perspectives and how traveling overseas like allowed you to just broaden your perspective a little bit.

00:16:17:19 – 00:16:24:24
Ellen Bennett
I think that’s super important for like especially a good user experience designer to have is to realize.

00:16:24:24 – 00:16:25:26
Gloria Chan
That the.

00:16:25:26 – 00:16:40:09
Ellen Bennett
More diverse perspectives that you have when you’re creating something, it’s just going to make the project and the platform and the product better. So that’s great that you’re able to able to see that and see the value in that.

00:16:40:11 – 00:17:13:24
Gloria Chan
Yeah, I think, I think that’s it’s really interesting because UX in particular, the more I work in that space, more I realize it is really about psychology, it is really about understanding people and, and behaviors and what makes something easy and what, what adds friction. I think all, all of that as a designer, there is a sense of gut intuition, but also just exposing yourself to other people, their situations, their perspectives.

00:17:13:26 – 00:17:34:03
Gloria Chan
I think that really adds to your understanding of all of those things, and it’s probably not something that you can necessarily learn. Like, you know, in a you need degree. I think a part of it is just getting out there into the world and talking to people, asking questions, trying know products.

00:17:34:05 – 00:17:48:08
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, I agree. Yeah. If they had like a class at uni, that’s like just a whole, a whole semester and like how to ask good questions. I feel like a lot of people would get a lot of value out of that.

00:17:48:10 – 00:18:22:25
Gloria Chan
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think there was, there was something from memory in one of my subjects about qualitative interviewing techniques and ask asking open ended questions. I vaguely remember some sort of subject about that, but those learnings are still things that I use everyday. Now. I think having those fundamentals of how to be inquisitive and how to ask good questions, how to take the approach of and this rather than but kind of, you know, that negative rebuttal.

00:18:22:27 – 00:18:33:19
Gloria Chan
I think you get more, more positive responses from building on top of someone’s idea rather than kind of just shooting it down straight away.

00:18:33:21 – 00:18:57:13
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, definitely. And I think those kind of like those those social skills, Right. Like it it all it is quite a social like a social industry to be in and like a job that is all about connection. Those kind of skills do come with time and experience. And, you know, you can’t really teach that at uni. So no, thanks.

00:18:57:13 – 00:19:11:10
Ellen Bennett
Thanks to thanks for showing your perspective on that. That’s super interesting. So, Gloria, I’d love to know what what lights you up. What inspired you to to do the work that you’re doing at the moment with Eliza?

00:19:11:13 – 00:19:34:06
Gloria Chan
So at the moment, I think I touched on this point. I think just the fact that I can work in in this space, you know, in UX and design and, and get paid to basically create ideas and perception, I think that that is always like the motivation for me. I just feel really lucky that this is a viable career that I’ve had for so long.

00:19:34:12 – 00:20:02:07
Gloria Chan
The other thing is just also the the people I work with. I think you mentioned design is a collaborative sport or something along those lines and and definitely that is on a day to day basis, one of the most motivating things that keep me going, just talking to my colleagues, even talking to people outside of work. Most people don’t think about it as a universal topic, but I think it is.

00:20:02:10 – 00:20:24:21
Gloria Chan
I think when people talk about brands, they like what products they they like. They are inadvertently talking about design. And when I’m talking to my colleagues and we’re collaborating and I find so much of my role now is really just about collaborating, getting people together in a room to talk about an idea or to figure out a problem.

00:20:24:24 – 00:20:36:17
Gloria Chan
I find that just continues to motivate me because the conversations are always different. The problems with solving are different. The solutions we come up with are always different as well. So yeah.

00:20:36:19 – 00:20:56:13
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. No, that’s that’s great. And it’s so nice to hear that you have such a, such an element of gratitude around, around your work, which to me is like really quite refreshing. It’s nice to hear that someone in the industry is like you find it like a privilege to be here and a privilege to be able to create the impacts that you’re doing.

00:20:56:13 – 00:21:09:15
Ellen Bennett
So now that’s and I guess from from that standpoint, has there been any, any speed bumps that you’ve faced in your career that kind of fostered that that element of gratitude.

00:21:09:18 – 00:21:35:08
Gloria Chan
Speed bumps? Yeah, I was thinking about this question. I mean, I think the gratitude pieces because starting out, I think in branding was super interesting for me because essentially as a designer, you’re when you’re creating a new identity, for example, you’re starting from scratch, right? You’re literally creating from a blank page. And I think there are not many roles where you can do that.

00:21:35:11 – 00:22:01:14
Gloria Chan
So I think that’s why I’ve always kept in mind like, Well, this is like so awesome that I can do this for a living and kind of evolve to X leaving Sydney and moving to the UK with nothing lined up. I don’t think it was a speed bump, but I think it was one of the most challenging points in my career because I think you just have to trust that you will find something.

00:22:01:16 – 00:22:33:14
Gloria Chan
And so leaving Sydney where I had a pretty stable kind of line up of basically freelance jobs that I could have very comfortably kept going with between a few studios, That was awesome. I just knew that I wanted to experience more and kind of work in a different market. And so the UK is obviously a really huge design market, so I thought that was the best place to go and I really had to trust that it would be okay.

00:22:33:14 – 00:23:04:15
Gloria Chan
So I kind of went over not knowing who the best agencies were, took my time to research that and then just made up a hit list. Like these are all the agencies that I love based off the blogs I was reading the work that I’d seen, and I just went through my list code, contacted everyone through email with a portfolio tailored every single portfolio to that agency to what I thought would resonate more with them.

00:23:04:15 – 00:23:12:10
Gloria Chan
And, you know, it may only be that I had adjusted one page, but I still thought it was important to do that as a recruiter.

00:23:12:10 – 00:23:14:21
Ellen Bennett
I think.

00:23:14:23 – 00:23:39:25
Gloria Chan
Yeah, I think they’re really nice thing that I discovered was that people are helpful by nature and, you know, responses were always really positive and I actually just made a lot of contacts through doing that and kind of putting myself out there. So it was like a, a, a challenging aspect in that no one kind of asks me to to do that.

00:23:39:25 – 00:23:47:03
Gloria Chan
No one motivated me to do that. I just had to be really self-motivated and believe that it would work.

00:23:47:05 – 00:24:19:18
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. Having that trust is frightening, to say the least. Have done. I’ve done it myself. It’s really scary, especially because you don’t realize, like, you think that the UK is pretty similar to Australia, but everything is like just in a different in a different color, almost like it’s all the same, but like the brands are just slightly different and you don’t know what any of the banks are and like they’re all just like slightly, slightly just a different shade.

00:24:19:21 – 00:24:21:09
Gloria Chan
And it’s.

00:24:21:11 – 00:24:44:19
Ellen Bennett
It’s really fun and exciting though. Once you actually do realize like, Hey, like it, it’s going to be a soft landing than what you thought. Yeah, but you’re right. You just have to have that have that self-motivation to be able to, you know, say, okay, well, I’ll take care of it when, when I land and we’ll just get on with it.

00:24:44:21 – 00:25:11:05
Gloria Chan
Yeah, exactly. And I think it’s also like it was a huge learning curve for me because it also kind of proved, and I’ve always looked by this attitude that it’s better to just learn by doing like, I think sometimes you can just overanalyze, get paralyzed by analysis, whereas if you just start doing something, maybe it’s 50% right, But it’s it will get better.

00:25:11:07 – 00:25:25:28
Gloria Chan
Like it can only get better because you’ve started something as opposed to not doing anything. I think that’s been a really helpful kind of mindset to have just throughout a design career where you have to have quite a thick skin.

00:25:26:01 – 00:25:45:06
Ellen Bennett
Yes, definitely. And I guess yourself being a woman now in a leadership position, how how has that come about? And has there been like influential people or like mentors that you’ve had throughout your career?

00:25:45:09 – 00:26:11:06
Gloria Chan
Yeah, I was thinking about this question a lot since we last spoke because I knew you were going to ask me about this. Initially, I was going to say when I started out in my career, there weren’t many female leaders that that were visible to me, as in starting out as an intern. When I looked out to the industry, it felt like a male dominated industry.

00:26:11:09 – 00:26:34:29
Gloria Chan
But what I actually found is when I started working in the industry, I was very lucky in that I, I connected with a few female leaders and they weren’t necessarily in design. Some of them were copywriters, some of them were in PR. But what was really inspiring was that these were like women who are really great at their careers.

00:26:35:02 – 00:27:01:13
Gloria Chan
They were leaders in their space, and I think I kind of found that person in each different phase of my career, and that really helped me just to build confidence and yeah, kind of know that it’s possible for women to reach really senior levels. There isn’t like there is still like a ceiling in place, but I think things are getting better.

00:27:01:15 – 00:27:07:18
Gloria Chan
I don’t prescribe to the attitude of because I’m a female, I can’t be as successful as a male.

00:27:07:20 – 00:27:08:25
Ellen Bennett
Yeah.

00:27:08:28 – 00:27:35:24
Gloria Chan
Yeah. And I say that really seriously because I have two kids. So it’s it’s very hard to struggle. And as a face, as a female, you know, there’s just so much mental load, having kids, having a career. But I genuinely think, you know, if you’ve got the right support, people in place, mentors as well as family, friends and network can be a really great leader as a female, as well as having a family.

00:27:35:26 – 00:28:06:08
Ellen Bennett
I love that. And yeah, I know that the struggle is real and I, I really love the fact that getting into the industry now, I think last time I checked, I can I can look at a bit of the background on on LinkedIn and based on LinkedIn, the graduates of design degrees and bootcamps and design education places, at the moment it’s actually 51% female and 49% male.

00:28:06:10 – 00:28:09:03
Gloria Chan
So we’re pretty.

00:28:09:05 – 00:28:41:14
Ellen Bennett
You know, the industry design industry as a whole is doing really well with with that with that ratio. However, once you do get into like those male leadership positions, you start to it starts to skew a little bit more towards males. So I’m really, really interested to see what that is going to look like in the next, you know, ten or 15 years once, you know, the graduates of 2023 are moving up into those leadership positions, what that ratio is actually really going to look like.

00:28:41:16 – 00:29:10:18
Ellen Bennett
So, yeah, and you’re so right, like the male representation that we have in the industry for just people in general kicking butt the better. So yeah, I think it’s so true. Like the if you have those good, the good companies that really take that seriously are going to be the places that foster these really great leaders. So yeah, sounds like guys are doing a good job so far.

00:29:10:20 – 00:29:48:29
Gloria Chan
Yeah. And I also found in my career like I when I reflect back, I think in each of my roles, I had a really strong female mentor who took a chance on me. Yeah, in some cases, you know, I had a strong female and strong male mentor who who took a chance on me. And it’s I guess the reflection is that, you know, starting out in your design career or whatever career you’re going in, the main goal should be to build relationships, to build really good relationships with each individual you meet, because that’s how you learn and how and how you find those connections.

00:29:48:29 – 00:29:57:05
Gloria Chan
And probably a lot of the people who were my mentors maybe don’t even realize that they were my mentors, but we had a no.

00:29:57:08 – 00:30:26:14
Ellen Bennett
It shouldn’t be like a formal, formal thing, right? Like you can yeah, you can look like just eavesdropping to them, like how they speak to a certain person on the phone. Really? Okay. Yeah. Pick that up and then implement that. Or like just seeing how they tackle a certain problem or, you know, it’s these little, like, micro pick ups, but it’s not as if you have to have a formal one on one sit down, mentor mentee lunch every month.

00:30:26:14 – 00:30:31:27
Ellen Bennett
Like it can just be like that day to day interactions that build up those relationships.

00:30:32:00 – 00:30:58:22
Gloria Chan
Yeah, exactly. And if you have a relationship with that one person, you know, they may bring you in on a project that they wouldn’t have thought of otherwise. So yeah, for example, in the UK when, when I moved eventually from freelancing to a permanent role in an innovation company, that was just because I had gotten to know the female director at the time and she took a chance on me.

00:30:58:24 – 00:31:17:29
Gloria Chan
And I think that was just based off us talking as humans, me being really clear on what I was looking for. And at the time I said, I want to get permanent somewhere, but I want flexibility because I’m in London, I still want to travel, but I have all these ambitions in my career and we just had a really real conversation and connected.

00:31:17:29 – 00:31:31:25
Gloria Chan
And that was yeah, that was kind of the the reason that I was able to do that role because of that individual and just making that connection.

00:31:31:27 – 00:31:37:19
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, utilize that network every so glaring.

00:31:37:19 – 00:31:38:02
Gloria Chan
And what.

00:31:38:04 – 00:31:45:28
Ellen Bennett
What takes up your spare time. Is there anything that you do outside of work that you feel like really helps your productivity.

00:31:46:00 – 00:32:07:15
Gloria Chan
I don’t know if it helps my productivity, but my kids take up my spare time. I’ve got a five year old and a three year old. Both girls. So actually, you know, I probably they do help with my productivity because they kind of give a real reason to stop work. Right? Like if if they’re home and I’m working, it’s just it doesn’t work.

00:32:07:15 – 00:32:43:23
Gloria Chan
So it actually helps because I get a dedicated break and then I have to really be present and focus on them. So I think that’s been helpful for me. The other thing that I do in my spare time is that I work for a I help out with the not for profit code Global Sisters, and they’re an awesome organization who have a series of coaching and they have access to things like micro-loans and business partners, and they help women in Australia who kind of don’t have a way to formal means of income.

00:32:43:25 – 00:33:09:00
Gloria Chan
So these women are sort of looking to start side hustles and small businesses. And so Global sisters sort of helping in that journey. So I help out with that as a semi in product design and, and I find that that actually really helps with my productivity because again, it’s kind of like a distinction between, you know, my work work every day work and then something on the side.

00:33:09:00 – 00:33:12:18
Gloria Chan
And so it’s like a nice little mental refresh. Yeah.

00:33:12:20 – 00:33:22:28
Ellen Bennett
No, that’s so cool. And I’ve never I’ve never heard of Global Sisters before, and I’d love if you could give us a bit of a feel and what on what you do there.

00:33:23:01 – 00:33:50:16
Gloria Chan
Yeah. So at the moment I’m working on a specific project with them. We’re trying to evolve the experience for sisters, so the women who we’re supporting evolving their digital experience to how they, how they access coaching, how they find the tools and resources that they need. So we’re working on I’m not going to say too much, but we’re working on a product that’s going to help them do that.

00:33:50:19 – 00:34:24:04
Gloria Chan
Yeah, it’s just really great. It’s Global Sisters. The team, the core team are predominantly female, so it’s it’s nice to just be around really strong, smart women. And we also obviously work with a bunch of other smart men as well. And it’s really inspiring organization and really inspiring to hear when women pitch their business ideas, just to see the confidence that they have to, you know, stick their neck out and be like, here’s an idea I have.

00:34:24:07 – 00:34:36:10
Gloria Chan
Here’s how I think it could work. And these are my next steps. It’s just so powerful to see women kind of taking control of of their lives in such a positive way.

00:34:36:12 – 00:34:47:03
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, that’s so cool. I’m getting a vision of like a not for profit Shark Tank, but yeah, So is that kind of what it’s like?

00:34:47:06 – 00:35:25:06
Gloria Chan
Yeah, Yeah. A lot of what Global Sisters is also about helping women build the confidence may have been working with a side hustle for a while and you know are looking to scale it and need support. Other women realize that they they can’t get a regular job, but they have all these skills and and then it’s about them discovering that hey actually my skill in for example knitting or crafts could actually become a viable, a viable job for me that can help in my financial situation.

00:35:25:06 – 00:35:31:16
Gloria Chan
So yeah, it’s really interesting. Every woman starts their journey at a different point. Yeah, Yeah.

00:35:31:24 – 00:35:50:09
Ellen Bennett
Now that’s so cool. That’s awesome that you’re able to get involved with that. And yeah, I mean, quick side note, feel free to cut this out just about, but if you could like send us any links or anything that we can like highlight on the buyer for this episode. Yeah, I’m sure that the listeners would love to hear more about it, but yeah, that’s great.

00:35:50:09 – 00:36:02:27
Ellen Bennett
And I guess with you being so lovely to join us on this podcast, is there, is there any podcast that you like to listen to or like any media that you like to what you go to?

00:36:03:00 – 00:36:32:14
Gloria Chan
I was trying to think of like a really smart podcast to mention. There is actually one design podcast that I quite like that I’ve sat listening to recently, which is Creativity Sucks, which is chaired by the editor of Creative Review magazine, so they’re based in the UK. She just has really interesting conversations with a lot of the leaders in the design industry, all sorts of different topics.

00:36:32:16 – 00:36:55:02
Gloria Chan
You know, things like does sex sell, still sell, why digital products hard. So that’s kind of like a design specific podcast that I thought was interesting. But otherwise I just like everyone brightness. Sometimes at the end of the day I feel a bit brain dead. So I go to Netflix and just watch tarot shows.

00:36:55:05 – 00:36:56:25
Ellen Bennett
Preaching to the converted.

00:36:56:28 – 00:37:15:05
Gloria Chan
I was recently like the last installment of Jurassic Park. I didn’t even realize they had made a last installment. And like all the old characters from the very first version came in with the new characters like Chris. Yeah.

00:37:15:08 – 00:37:15:21
Ellen Bennett
And it’s all.

00:37:15:21 – 00:37:20:07
Gloria Chan
Like, to be honest, I kind of fall asleep through movies now, Hey.

00:37:20:10 – 00:37:28:14
Ellen Bennett
If you’re if you’re a mum of two kids, five and under, then that is totally fine. You take all the naps that you can get.

00:37:28:16 – 00:37:31:05
Gloria Chan
Totally, totally fair.

00:37:31:07 – 00:37:46:26
Ellen Bennett
my gosh. Thank you. Thank you for that. And I mean, I like to I like to end the podcast with the question of if you could give your younger self some career advice, what what would that be?

00:37:46:28 – 00:38:11:26
Gloria Chan
The one thing that I think I would tell my younger self is just to really enjoy the moment, Whatever moment you’re in. I think maybe I don’t know if it’s this generational is probably universal. I think young people are always thinking about the next thing. What’s my next move? What’s the next best thing I’m going to do? What’s my future look like?

00:38:11:26 – 00:38:49:29
Gloria Chan
But I think sometimes you just got to stop and be like, Wow, this is currently what I’m doing. I’m creating this awesome product, or I’m defining the tone of voice for this new brand. Sometimes it’s good just to take stock of where you are and be like, This is pretty awesome. So my advice to my younger self is like, Don’t worry too much about what the next career step is, but just really take in what you’re doing now because chances are it’s probably something you’re not going to do again in in the specifics of that experience.

00:38:49:29 – 00:38:53:07
Gloria Chan
So just enjoy it.

00:38:53:10 – 00:39:10:23
Ellen Bennett
I love that. Thank you so, so much. Yeah. So thank you so much for coming on. I’ve learned so, so much. And yeah, I think you’re doing some really incredible things. It’s really great to hear about your journey and how you got to where you’re at. So thank you so much for joining us.

00:39:10:25 – 00:39:14:21
Gloria Chan
Thank you. I really appreciate it.