In this episode of the NTP podcast we chat with Daniel Borg, Director/Designer at psyborg®. Daniel is a Newcastle local and well known in the Newcastle technology community. We hear more about his experience in the design space and key learnings building a business from startup phase. Hope you enjoy the interview!

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Show Notes

Here you can source all the things we have talked about in the podcast whether that be books, events, meet-up groups and what’s new in the Newcastle tech scene.

• • Daniel’s LinkedIn
  • psyborg®’s LinkedIn
  • psyborg®’s Website

Find all local Newcastle Technology Events

• Event’s Page

00:00:20:06 – 00:00:25:20
James MacDonald
All right. Welcome to another episode of the NewyTechPeople podcast. On today’s episode, we have Daniel Borg from psyborg®.

00:00:26:10 – 00:00:29:10
Daniel Borg
Daniel James Hey, thank you for having me on. This is bloody awesome.

00:00:29:19 – 00:00:37:17
James MacDonald
You’ve been around Newcastle for more years and I have. I think you need not just as many people as maybe long time.

00:00:37:20 – 00:00:55:11
Daniel Borg
Yeah, it’s been amazing watching the changes that happened. You know, like I went to Newcastle Union of sort of been around for probably in the tech space for the graphic design and digital space for at least 20, 22 years. Yeah, but, but my business is 17 years old so this is my 17th year of running psyborg®.

00:00:55:14 – 00:01:10:01
James MacDonald
I will get in the garage the same second. Yeah, For your business, psyborg®. I should break it down for, for those, you know, audience who don’t know who you are, what you do. A bit of an idea of, you know, your your creative diet or your business.

00:01:10:08 – 00:01:27:19
Daniel Borg
Yeah, I definitely we like to help small to medium businesses be creative and thrive through design thinking. Yeah. So I’m big on design thinking and creativity. And so using the digital sort of tools that we have available as well as creative thinking, combining them and helping them thrive and grow.

00:01:28:01 – 00:01:30:20
James MacDonald
Yeah, that’s, that’s where the name came from, Yeah.

00:01:30:24 – 00:01:53:20
Daniel Borg
Cyborg Yeah, I like my that’s why blogs are not they’re like, see why like the Terminator psyborg® and which is plays on psychology. So my wife’s a clinical psychologist, which is what inspired me for the name psyborg®. Yeah. When we first met back at uni. And but it’s, it’s about creativity. So part mind is my, my saying pop machine.

00:01:54:02 – 00:01:58:02
Daniel Borg
So instead of pop man pop machine pop more and pop machine. Yeah, I like it. Yeah.

00:01:58:10 – 00:02:08:21
James MacDonald
I like it. Matt And you’ve been around Newcastle for a while and you mentioned before you’ve seen some changes. Any, any highlights or any, any big changes that you’ve seen the Newcastle seen over the past 1520 years?

00:02:09:04 – 00:02:36:11
Daniel Borg
Well, definitely in the tech space, people like growth wise and yourself have actually sort of conglomerated and helped bring that ecosystem together. So I’ve seen that happen, which wasn’t happening before that. So which was fantastic. Before that it was very small operators I suppose, and I think campfire, you know, turning up in Newcastle as well. Being a ASX listed company and the growth that they have had, sort of just putting Newcastle on the map from a tech point of view.

00:02:36:14 – 00:02:45:03
Daniel Borg
Yeah, before that it was really villages and I suppose it still is now, which is one of its benefits, but it just feels a little bit more focused around tech.

00:02:45:05 – 00:03:02:13
James MacDonald
Yeah, I think when I was starting out that had Trent back now Craig Lambert with Slingshot. Yeah. And then you had Stephan Allen at Growth was, you know, bringing that together and then they work really closely together. And then the early days of Slingshot spat out campfire. Yeah, I got Andrew Meath from Switched in early days as well.

00:03:02:13 – 00:03:08:24
James MacDonald
And then we’ve got left and Guy who have now having success internationally and Mike from so I like that yeah.

00:03:09:18 – 00:03:14:23
Daniel Borg
I remember when Slingshot started at those couple of conferences that they had, I think it was Digg or that.

00:03:15:06 – 00:03:16:16
James MacDonald
Yeah. Jake Steph was involved.

00:03:16:18 – 00:03:36:00
Daniel Borg
Yeah that’s right. That was when they sort of all come onto the scene and that was when the NAMA pitch happened. And that’s how camp before I got their legs. And I guess now I help them sort of launch and, and go bigger. And so yeah, it’s been amazing to watch that grow, like being a young upstart at uni and deciding to stay in Newcastle, not go to city like pretty much everyone else did.

00:03:36:01 – 00:03:39:08
Daniel Borg
Yeah, I’ve been able to watch that wave and ride the wave as well.

00:03:39:11 – 00:03:56:19
James MacDonald
Yeah, I think that’s an interesting point as well. I mean, you would have seen some changes there, but yeah, there’s definitely a thought process of when you went to university back in the days and I went Newcastle University many, many, many years ago. Yeah. That you had to then go away for work or to build a career, especially in the tech space.

00:03:56:19 – 00:04:04:08
James MacDonald
And that’s changed where you could do software engineering and computer science degree there and Newcastle then, you know, come out and get a job locally.

00:04:04:17 – 00:04:36:14
Daniel Borg
100%. And I think the Internet’s been the biggest kind of, let’s say like when I was I studied mechanical engineering at uni and then changed over the graphic design just at the time when the internet was invented. Yeah. So I was like late nineties, early 2000s. And I basically just went through the graphic design degree, having some Internet experience from engineering like I did when I five, when I was like few of these computer science subjects learning HTML, learning CC and like Fortran, all these sort of programing languages that engineers were forced to learn back then.

00:04:36:20 – 00:04:56:08
Daniel Borg
But then going into graphic design, which had no tech or no sort of QML programing at all, and then bringing that to the subject, I just flew and I just saw the opportunities come and this is in the time when Redback was in town, which is really awesome. They were probably the biggest web design company back then. Then there was a company called Total Internet Center Tech.

00:04:56:14 – 00:04:56:18
James MacDonald
High.

00:04:56:22 – 00:05:21:04
Daniel Borg
And I worked for them. I got a job straight out of uni with those guys and being a QML programmer and graphic designer front end, it was all back in the days of tables and before DevOps come along. So learning that and then when devs come along, having to reinvent that with CC and then flash so and in the flash days make and websites fully flash like interactive, which I loved as the best part.

00:05:21:04 – 00:05:41:02
Daniel Borg
And then you know, I’m at Adobe killing that yeah. When they bought it from Macromedia or Apple killing us all right or you know just seeing all those changes and but being in that in Newcastle when all that was happening was pretty cool like at the early days and you know, I think it was Matthew Friedman who owned back back in the day and he sold it to a couple of guys.

00:05:41:02 – 00:05:51:05
Daniel Borg
I know Dave’s got it now, but I got to do subcontract work from home when I went out on my own to see like and that’s awesome that they’re still going to be honest because they were like one of the first.

00:05:51:06 – 00:06:13:05
James MacDonald
Yeah, it’s good to see Newcastle’s success stories. Yeah. And however much things changed, something stayed the same. Yeah. And companies that have been able to ride those waves. Yeah, exactly. If I’d be interested in that part actually. For you from your perspective, obviously the digital space is continuing to change, but you’ve remained in Newcastle. Yeah, still in business for 20 years and so many businesses go out of business.

00:06:13:05 – 00:06:20:10
James MacDonald
Yeah. Now what’s maybe one of the biggest challenges, some of the biggest challenges you face over that and broadening the different ways and challenges I.

00:06:20:10 – 00:06:38:12
Daniel Borg
Try to keep an agile mindset, which I know is like a bit of a buzzword, but it’s just been able to adapt to change and sort of get over yourself because you get you can get frustrated and go, Oh, I don’t have to learn this new thing. I’ll bloody, oh, you know, but you just got to go. Not, I’ve just got to learn it, just get on with it and before you know, you, you know and you learn and, and you’re working with it.

00:06:38:12 – 00:07:05:11
Daniel Borg
So I think getting out of your own way is a big one. So I like this mindset in I like. On how you guys talk about mental health now and then and stuff like that. Like just just sort of being self-aware to know where you’re getting stuck or you’re pushing back on yourself and just like getting over and discount, just try like so and how that relates to Agile is just basically moving fast, you know, filing fast.

00:07:05:11 – 00:07:21:13
Daniel Borg
So, you know, you’re trialing an error pretty quickly and yeah, learning and and now with AI, which is a whole new benchmark, I suppose we’re all going to learn and adapt too, but in a way that makes that easier. You know, it’s almost like this tool that’s just helping us learn faster.

00:07:21:15 – 00:07:28:04
James MacDonald
Yeah, become more efficient. Yeah, I like I think AI is a tool. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of talk about machines like. Yeah, Terminator.

00:07:28:11 – 00:07:29:09
Daniel Borg
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.

00:07:29:10 – 00:07:44:06
James MacDonald
But no for that for the absolutely vast majority of it’s like it’s going to be a tool that’s going to make life significantly easy, more efficient. As you said, you have to people have to learn to adapt and use those tools. Yeah. And people that use those tools the best will have probably have more success.

00:07:44:06 – 00:08:04:12
Daniel Borg
Yeah, I’m trying to figure it out myself now because I’m in the graphic design space. It’s really disrupting as well. So we all know about chatbots, but there’s things like B Journey and Dolly and stable diffusion and get my head around that. I spent my whole Christmas holidays learning it. Yeah. And just thinking, well, young kids coming up, I’m just going to use this off the bat, right?

00:08:04:20 – 00:08:27:03
Daniel Borg
So we have to compete with that. So you have to get in there and do it and that so to me, that’s that’s part of that mindset as well as just scanning. Will I have to adapt or do I, you know, and, and yeah, like once you do get your head around it and start using it and playing with it, you know, all of a sudden it just becomes part of the artillery, part of the toolset and it’s just expand from there.

00:08:27:03 – 00:08:43:10
James MacDonald
Yeah. And chat show BTR or any that are chosen around the visual design space if you as well and you stay on top of them. Yeah, it’s going to create more efficiencies for you as a business to think about times ten years ago we had to, you know, build this from scratch or something like that and you can turn something out so quickly.

00:08:43:10 – 00:09:05:07
Daniel Borg
It’s really funny to say that because I’ve always loved to do 3D animation and sort of like special effects sort of stuff, but to be able to stay in Newcastle, I didn’t really have the market for that, so I never pursued it because there’s a massive learning curve to go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, So I wasted away and stay with web design because there’s a market there with branding and logos and all that sort of stuff is definitely a market there.

00:09:05:20 – 00:09:23:17
Daniel Borg
But part of my passion wanted to go down that route, but now all of a sudden the fact that I didn’t go down there and I was patient, all of a sudden the tools are just coming to me now that I can actually use and create those things that are in my mind using AI. So the sort of like you got to back yourself as well and just go and be patient and.

00:09:24:08 – 00:09:40:07
James MacDonald
And invest the time. You’ve mentioned a couple of times already, like staying on top of new tools and learning this late moving forward, no matter how your age or just your in your in school, coming straight out of university and staying on top of your first job. I yeah, that continual learning doesn’t stop you. You want to be a success.

00:09:40:07 – 00:09:42:00
James MacDonald
So that continual learning doesn’t stop right there.

00:09:42:05 – 00:10:01:13
Daniel Borg
You just got to keep learning. And I’ve got this thing called Just in Time Learning. Yeah. Which is like an engineering term, just in time where it’s kind of like how products get made to order just in time, get shipped out. I think the Internet’s given us just in time learning, so you get a problem. You’ve got the Internet, there’s a resource like you guys talk about YouTube and podcasts and, you know, blogs.

00:10:01:20 – 00:10:26:07
Daniel Borg
It’s all there just to learn just in time when a new opportunity comes on your part. So I’ve written some blog articles about that, trying to like talk about the engineering world of Just in Time, how it applies to our own personal development. You know, just in time. And I think that’s that’s amazing. Like, this is the first time in human history that anybody’s ever had that access to tools, everything at your fingertips.

00:10:26:12 – 00:10:44:15
James MacDonald
Has access to information. Yeah, Yeah, that’s exactly right. That access to information accessibility is the biggest change. Yeah, I think the tools is essentially the same, Right? I love the I love the air that’s been talked about at the moment, you know, is I, you know, very much based on the machine learning tools have been around for quite, quite some time.

00:10:44:15 – 00:11:05:21
James MacDonald
Yeah that’s right but it’s only been accessible by big companies with lots of budgets and really big datasets. Yeah, there have been two versions of machine learning for over ten years right now, but now with the, you know. JPT Yeah, yeah. That now that, you know. Deputy three And then it’s going to be. JP For all those talk, all the match, everything on top, the accessibility for that for everyone.

00:11:05:21 – 00:11:06:16
Daniel Borg
Now, yeah.

00:11:07:02 – 00:11:08:22
James MacDonald
Is this going to be the game changer?

00:11:08:22 – 00:11:29:02
Daniel Borg
Yeah, that’s right. Like my kids will just be using it straight off the bat like that. I probably won’t let them right now, but yeah, but they’re sick of me. Talk about it like I think they over which might have been a good thing. Yeah. Because I just think it’s some weird, funny concept, but they’re going to naturally go through it like once, like they’re all in primary school at the moment, so.

00:11:29:02 – 00:11:43:19
James MacDonald
Yeah, exactly. And open hours. Yeah. It is a really good API with that as well. So like you get companies that are built on top of that. Yeah. So like the way I said that it would be similar to the internet obviously. And then yeah, it’s called technology and then people building on top of that or maybe a better example is mobile.

00:11:43:24 – 00:11:51:06
James MacDonald
I think mobile came out early days. Only people that were had a significant amount of money had that mobile. Yeah. And become accessible to everyone. Everyone’s building up on that.

00:11:51:07 – 00:11:53:19
Daniel Borg
So I think that’s like a tipping point in. Yeah.

00:11:54:06 – 00:11:58:07
James MacDonald
Yeah, yeah. I think it’ll be really interesting. You know, just ride that wave and see how that plays out as well.

00:11:58:07 – 00:12:08:07
Daniel Borg
100% and like it. I mean, that’s what I call it, surfing the web. You’re just riding the wave like exploring and discovering and learning and adapting.

00:12:08:19 – 00:12:24:12
James MacDonald
And I normally don’t get into it’s near the end around the favorite books and podcasts. You know, guys, it’s based it seems like YouTube’s one for you. Is there any other real highlights for you? Like, Hey, that’s been super. Yeah, it’s super helpful for Yeah, Yeah. So you’d recommend to other people.

00:12:24:12 – 00:12:44:06
Daniel Borg
Yeah. And it’s not tech related. A lot of the stuff I listen to is probably personal related, like psychology related. Yeah. I love John. I talked to Jordan Peterson. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him and he can be a bit polarizing for different people, but I love his clinical psychology, you know, the way he views the world through that lens.

00:12:44:06 – 00:13:00:04
Daniel Borg
Yeah. And it’s all about human behavior. Yeah. And it helps me with my own behavior and my own understanding of myself, but also how other people behave. Our clients buy our customers behave. And, you know, for me as a designer, you’ve got to think about the other person all the time. It’s not about what I think it’s about.

00:13:00:04 – 00:13:23:04
Daniel Borg
You’re putting the mind in the customer or in the consumer and think like you’re trying to change their behavior, basically. So psychology’s a big part of that. So and just I like how he unpacks, like stories from from our like the Bible and from just and he just gets all those metaphors and all those just the symbolism out of it.

00:13:23:04 – 00:13:31:14
Daniel Borg
And that makes you realize, well, this is how our society works now because of all of that. So it kind of helps you hack society in a way because you’re sort of reading between the lines.

00:13:31:20 – 00:13:36:14
James MacDonald
Yeah. Yeah. Since, you know, great. I’ve consumed some stuff. His book was Are.

00:13:37:04 – 00:13:37:14
Daniel Borg
The 12.

00:13:37:14 – 00:13:42:14
James MacDonald
Rules. Yeah, it’s Dave, but yeah, yeah, it’s not an easy ride.

00:13:42:14 – 00:13:43:04
Daniel Borg
Not, not.

00:13:43:17 – 00:13:43:21
James MacDonald
Either.

00:13:44:09 – 00:14:07:02
Daniel Borg
He’s got one before that. Maps of meaning. Yeah. Which is from a graphic design point of view or designer is it’s all about symbolism. Yeah. And we all like when you think about the English language, like characters on a page, letters, they’re just symbols or either we’ve just been brainwashed to know they mean a certain thing. And that’s the same with logos and symbols like the Christian Cross versus the Nike logo versus the McDonnell thing.

00:14:07:09 – 00:14:16:21
Daniel Borg
These are all symbols that I’ve got stories from. Millennial. Yeah, that we don’t even realize we’ve been brainwashed towards. Yeah, and one. Yeah, I think I might be on a throne.

00:14:16:21 – 00:14:17:12
James MacDonald
Nah, nah, nah.

00:14:17:12 – 00:14:30:19
Daniel Borg
I’m passionate about it, but when you like, that’s what our book actually delves into the symbolism, like from ancient Greece and beyond. Yeah, the narratives that are underlying everything we do is just so ancient and we don’t even know it.

00:14:31:01 – 00:14:51:14
James MacDonald
And I like it. Yeah, like it might a pull that you pull back but just before that psychology because I think it’s super important I think about like well relate to our tech audience a lot a lot of technology and I think you can get caught up in the technology. Hey, I’ve built this technology, the code super, the rate, and it’s housed in the right place.

00:14:51:14 – 00:15:07:15
James MacDonald
And so yeah, it’s super available, but there’s no need for it like that. I think there’s, you know, there’d be thousands of apps in the App Store really well written, but no one uses it because there wasn’t a user need for it. So that that understanding of human behavior.

00:15:07:15 – 00:15:08:11
Daniel Borg
Yes. Yeah.

00:15:08:13 – 00:15:17:13
James MacDonald
And how that ties into the technology, one’s not great without the other. I think you need both of those parts to come together for something to be super successful, right?

00:15:17:13 – 00:15:32:04
Daniel Borg
Yeah. You need the need for us. Like you’re going to be solving a problem just like the top level, and you need the user experience so that people feel like they’re getting their problem solved through the process. And then underneath that is how it works and functions. And I’m like, That’s the code and the hosting and all that stuff, I guess.

00:15:32:04 – 00:15:56:19
Daniel Borg
I mean, the cleanness of the code works from an internal development, working with like commenting and structuring the code right? But I guess, yeah, that has to be an understanding of the whole stack of ideas and layers of, of what’s required. Yeah. Like minor things about creative direction. Yeah. About using the tools in to sort of bring that to life I guess.

00:15:56:19 – 00:16:06:06
James MacDonald
Yeah. I guess like from that perspective, like there’s a tech company comes to Yeah. Really. Well Bill product. Yeah. But your job is to how how to communicate that product. Yeah. To the market.

00:16:06:06 – 00:16:06:19
Daniel Borg
Exactly.

00:16:06:19 – 00:16:10:17
James MacDonald
Yeah. And how to communicate. You know what that is. That like one of the biggest challenges.

00:16:10:23 – 00:16:29:09
Daniel Borg
That’s where you start. Like it’s not how I think you know, the Simon Sinek sort of thing where it’s like, what problem is he solving? Like, why does it make your life better? Yeah, I’m thinking about it from that customer’s point of view and then unpacking that into the the brand and into the the top line communication. I like the headlines.

00:16:29:09 – 00:16:44:16
Daniel Borg
Just everything that people see for us and they either move towards or move away. So you’re always trying to make a move towards. Yes. And that’s psychology. It’s like you’re trying to that’s what I mean by changing human behavior like you. Whenever a new stimulus comes in, either go away like fight or flight.

00:16:44:19 – 00:16:45:02
James MacDonald
Yeah.

00:16:45:09 – 00:17:04:00
Daniel Borg
So fight or can I go closer to what I suppose. And so as a designer, we’re trying to make people come closer to it rather than fly it. Yeah. So, yeah, like unpacking all of those variables like that. So many variables. Yeah. And to find that right, focus in that right direction, which is creative direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:04:00 – 00:17:24:20
James MacDonald
And say let’s just play it again and attack. Let’s say attack sort of the somebody building a product on the side. Right. Yeah. The most important for them to get a product built that you know is well built. Yeah. Where, at what stage in our process does engaging somebody like yourself in that process work best? Obviously people run unlimited budgets.

00:17:24:20 – 00:17:43:04
Daniel Borg
It all happens, like in my experience that you get it at every stage, like sometimes is the end and they reinvented or some I was right at the start. Well, it’s an idea and I just want to suss out if it’s, you know, it’s worth doing, you know, pursuing. I think you got to just make sure you’re solving the problem.

00:17:43:04 – 00:17:57:09
Daniel Borg
So I don’t think brands are important at the start. I really don’t. I think you need to like just test and measure it with your friends or with a wider audience and just get that feedback. It doesn’t matter what it’s called. It doesn’t matter what it looks like. Just like, is this solving a problem? Do people want to use it?

00:17:57:09 – 00:18:18:02
Daniel Borg
Yeah. And then I think that’s when you go on to a more mass audience that you need to like find the common denominators, which then require graphic design and design thinking. I suppose. But in a way, that problem that you’re trying to solve at the start is part of like a design thinking process anyway. Yeah. So, you know, you can engage a designer at any time really.

00:18:18:09 – 00:18:39:00
James MacDonald
And I’ve actually I’ve met I actually love that guy that runs the design company and his life is built around. Yeah. Making that important for you to come out and say actually solving the problem. Oh, that’s is the first by not just trying to sell design for hey because I’m a designer, but someone that can come in and actually acknowledge its place in that process.

00:18:39:00 – 00:18:48:02
James MacDonald
Obviously super important, but secondary to to solving a problem. But then how you communicate that to a larger audience. Well, massively important. That’s where you know.

00:18:48:13 – 00:19:08:04
Daniel Borg
Yeah, that’s right. But like a lot of the time, a client might come to me and they don’t even know what problem solving. So they have to get that right first. It’s easier for me if someone comes to me understanding it. Yeah, that’s super easy because we just have to work out how to explain it. Like just to I don’t mean to say the word dumbing down, but you just got to make it really simple that anyone can grasp.

00:19:08:04 – 00:19:25:03
Daniel Borg
Yeah, that’s really what a good designer does. I think. Again, a lot of people think graphic designers about special effects and like making things look cool, but I think it’s just about getting to the point like, like less is more like just getting rid of the bullshit. Yeah. And finding that core idea. And that’s probably the hard thing to do, finding that cool idea.

00:19:25:08 – 00:19:35:04
Daniel Borg
And if you go back to what the whys, what problem solving, it’s usually in that. Yeah. So that comes back to that factor of of I’m saying that yourself for your own business or your own product.

00:19:35:07 – 00:19:48:04
James MacDonald
Yeah. No I really I really like it because I think that communication piece is massive. Yeah I think that the understanding between, you know, humanity, customer, audience or just people. Yeah. And then the technology and Yeah, that, that middle ground.

00:19:48:06 – 00:19:49:08
Daniel Borg
That’s where I play.

00:19:49:08 – 00:19:59:05
James MacDonald
Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s where we do that as well. Yeah. Like we play on that the, the edges or the outskirts of technology. Yeah. We’re not building technology ourselves. I’m technical enough that I can understand.

00:19:59:07 – 00:20:00:06
Daniel Borg
Yeah, me too. Yeah.

00:20:00:18 – 00:20:08:04
James MacDonald
I can understand what people talking about, but I’m not writing in that writing kind of self, but you know, understand where that, where you know, between business and technology.

00:20:08:04 – 00:20:09:04
Daniel Borg
And yeah, the interface.

00:20:10:05 – 00:20:11:17
James MacDonald
It sounds like very similar experience.

00:20:11:19 – 00:20:30:01
Daniel Borg
On I definitely like I’ve ridden the wave like, like I said, high HTML and then CC and Flash came and gone and then very WordPress like I’m big into WordPress now and just having to adapt, but it’s just a tool to me, like just work out what I can do with it to solve the problems for my clients, you know?

00:20:30:01 – 00:20:48:17
Daniel Borg
And that comes back to like, what problem is that these oh, like people don’t engage me because I can build a WordPress. I probably engage me because I can unpack their problems and unpack their find out like what it is they’re trying to achieve and then give them steps to achieve that just by simplifying the process.

00:20:48:21 – 00:21:01:19
James MacDonald
Yeah, I think, you know, you’re paying for it, you know, not just the WordPress site, right? Yes. Yeah. I’ve built a few websites and, you know, as I said, probably not most technical person in the world. Yeah, that’s right. People can sign up a website through Squarespace. Yeah.

00:21:01:20 – 00:21:02:06
Daniel Borg
I mean.

00:21:02:06 – 00:21:10:05
James MacDonald
These days it’s cheap and it’s easy to do. Yeah, but what they’re paying for is like how, how this website can actually communicate what I’m.

00:21:10:05 – 00:21:10:23
Daniel Borg
Trying to do with.

00:21:11:07 – 00:21:21:20
James MacDonald
This, Right? Yeah. Because if you get that part right, then you’ve actually got a chance of building something that’s going to be successful, something that’s actually going to reach your target audience and actually engage them, right? Yeah.

00:21:21:23 – 00:21:42:22
Daniel Borg
Yeah. I 100%. It’s just about communication, like people buy from people that I buy really well, I guess I buy it from a website, but they’re buying from the brand, which is kind of a personality which harks back to a person, you know. So yeah, I think you’ve got to be careful not to get too caught up in the tech, but think more about the human interface of the tech.

00:21:43:10 – 00:21:53:13
James MacDonald
For a designer, somebody like from your background, how do you view, you know, the Wix and the Squarespace of the world? Obviously that tools. But I would think that some people out there to downplay it.

00:21:53:19 – 00:22:09:24
Daniel Borg
Sometimes I’ll get a client that wants me to work on their Squarespace site or Wix and basically we just will give it a facelift. A facelift, or update the content for them. But the thing I don’t like about them sites is is a bit harder with SEO to sort of get them to go because they’re usually in their own ecosystem.

00:22:09:24 – 00:22:29:19
Daniel Borg
Yeah. And you sort of like it’s just hard to tinker under the hood, I guess, which is why I like WordPress. You can basically just do whatever you want to it. Yeah, but, but I don’t tag anyone out for I’ll just say this at all. Like I said, back to the start. So it’s whatever their budget is at the time, whatever they want to do and they’re learning about their business through doing something like that.

00:22:29:19 – 00:22:46:15
Daniel Borg
So yeah, so yeah, and I’m happy to I’ll take on anything like that. I don’t care what I get. What is it like? I mean, I use an apple like, you know, the whole Mac versus PCV or an apple go. But I don’t get caught up in like Wix versus WordPress or whatever is just, I mean, look, we’re all going to die, so who cares about.

00:22:46:15 – 00:22:47:03
Daniel Borg
She’s like.

00:22:47:08 – 00:22:48:12
James MacDonald
Nah, nah, I can play.

00:22:48:14 – 00:22:49:10
Daniel Borg
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:49:10 – 00:23:08:19
James MacDonald
Actually, I can play the graph. Just think it’s a tool. It’s one of those things. Um, yeah, in the recruitment world, my example would probably be, say, like, I can pass job editing don’t myself. Yeah, I imagine from a design perspective is I can just go to Wix and sing something. That’s right. Yeah. The difference in quality between what you know, they might put it.

00:23:08:20 – 00:23:22:23
James MacDonald
Yeah. And so as far as actually engaging somebody in, you know, understanding that how you communicate, what I communicate, etcetera. Yeah. How that design all comes together, that’s very different service. Yeah. But it does serve a purpose for, for people at different stages and they.

00:23:23:01 – 00:23:45:08
Daniel Borg
Definitely, you know, based on some personal brand or whatever is they’re trying to do. Yeah. I’m now, I’m like it helps me like I just, we just got another website the other day and we’re taking it from I think it might be weeks and we’re rebuilding it in WordPress. So in a way it’s, it’s better because we’ve got the content, we just sort of make it giving it a facelift and add new images and making it cooler and responsive and all the things you have to do.

00:23:45:10 – 00:23:51:17
Daniel Borg
Yeah, for a modern website, but there’s just different different paths for people’s different journeys, I guess, you know.

00:23:51:18 – 00:23:59:12
James MacDonald
And I completely agree. I think I’m Cameron played a similar role in the case was all right yeah Photoshop obviously the premium tool.

00:23:59:12 – 00:23:59:20
Daniel Borg
Yeah.

00:23:59:22 – 00:24:07:02
James MacDonald
Or any of the Adobe suites yeah yeah until but the learning curve is a lot steeper right. Canvas introduce more people to design. Yeah.

00:24:07:06 – 00:24:30:09
Daniel Borg
And more accessibility Like it actually does help us like Yeah. In that at the start you might have got to be dancey about it, but clients eventually realize it’s not about the tools, it’s about the thinking. Yeah, that’s what we learned at uni. Like we did for years. And you’re just learning how to think. You’re not really learning how to design like we had, we had, which is design in a way, but we had all different types of skill sets in there, people that couldn’t illustrate versus people who could.

00:24:30:09 – 00:24:36:21
Daniel Borg
And you know, there’s people that couldn’t illustrate it all, but they’re like leading advertising agencies right now just because they’ve learned how to think.

00:24:36:21 – 00:24:37:05
James MacDonald
Yeah.

00:24:37:17 – 00:24:47:19
Daniel Borg
And I think that’s what Unis really is about, just like understanding yourself and how you learn and then how you can research and how you can get better and improve and change the world.

00:24:47:24 – 00:25:00:11
James MacDonald
Like the Graduate. We we did did tend to touch on this. Yeah. And the vast majority of our podcast, The Importance of University Journey. It sounds like you had a really good experience and it was an experience around learning how to learn that.

00:25:00:13 – 00:25:13:02
Daniel Borg
Yeah, definitely. I had I had a bad experience at the start, but really bad. Yeah, I, I did industrial engineering at Tafe like at a high school, which is people don’t even know what industrial engineering. But I’m Tim Cook’s actually a trained industrial engineer.

00:25:13:02 – 00:25:13:13
James MacDonald
Yeah, right.

00:25:13:14 – 00:25:33:19
Daniel Borg
So what it’s about is process design and like how to build a factory that is efficient. Yeah. So I did that at Target and that was when BHP was here. Yeah. So they had an industrial engineering course just for BHP. Yeah. Right. And I wasn’t, didn’t care about BHP, I was good at industrial Design High School so making desks and tables, being creative, but a bit technical with tech drawing, that’s the stuff.

00:25:33:21 – 00:25:52:18
Daniel Borg
Yeah. So I thought industrial engineering was just a continuation of that. Yeah, but I got there and it was totally different. I’m with all of these blue collared guys that work at BHP and when I got there and Don and I did did the diploma associate diploma, and then that got me into mechanical engineering degree and one of one of my mates who are industrial engineering went over to mechanical engineering.

00:25:52:18 – 00:26:14:15
Daniel Borg
So I sort of just followed him and then I got like, these are now for you call it like an internship sort of traineeship sort of thing with an engineering company called Conduct ACE, which was a joint venture on Keurig Island, and we’re building the shipping strains, you know, the conveyor belts out there, the second shipping strain. And I was basically just like an admin assistant to all the engineers, like helping them with the plans.

00:26:14:15 – 00:26:35:10
Daniel Borg
And like I think the last role I got there was like organising a modifications crew. So we’d have boilermakers and we take it to the site and we weld cleats on and erect trestles and I was like in charge of that while studying mechanical engineering at uni. And it’s really cool. Like I love the work, but it just got way too hot for me and I just didn’t love engineering.

00:26:35:19 – 00:26:56:05
Daniel Borg
So anyway, that’s when I met my girlfriend Adele, and she was studying psychology. That’s all she said. Just changed to graphic design. It’s what you’re into because I was always illustrating to a murals just having fun with like doing surfboard graphics and skateboard graphics and stuff. And, and then I just went to the uni course, the graphic design department, and I said, show support Farley.

00:26:56:05 – 00:27:18:03
Daniel Borg
I showed them all this murals and all this stuff I’ve been doing. And I said, Yeah, you’re in, got in there and then I’ve just been flying ever since. Like, but the coolest thing was that bad engineering experience I had. Like I’ve learned a lot of engineering techniques and processes that are part of business and graphic design, and that’s helped my business immensely over the last 17 years or whatever.

00:27:18:03 – 00:27:34:08
Daniel Borg
And but so I didn’t have a bad experience at the start. You know, there was a lot of like probably crisis sort of stuff equals having to give up something. I’ve, you know, I’ve done a diploma in working. Yeah. And then having to give all that away and start something new. That was the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

00:27:34:09 – 00:27:43:22
Daniel Borg
Yeah. That mental health wise, like telling your parents because my dad’s got an engineering sort of background and he wanted me to be in that world just, you know, doing that and is a lot.

00:27:43:22 – 00:28:07:11
James MacDonald
Of pressure too, now. Yeah, I tried. I think, you know, deciding what you’re going to do for a career and that’s why it’s a position sometimes. Yeah, you’re going to go to university to, you know, pick which degree you’re going to do because that’s going to be career for life. Yeah, I think the pressure on people at that age is just ridiculous because the vast majority of us, you know, change careers these days that, you know, what’s long gone are the days where, hang on, I’m going to do apprenticeship at age 16 and that’s my career.

00:28:07:15 – 00:28:19:03
Daniel Borg
And I’ve seen a change so much. But like just that angst of telling your parents and then like feeling like you’ve given up on some because I sort of had that mindset that you just don’t give up.

00:28:19:09 – 00:28:40:15
James MacDonald
Yeah, but I think the biggest part that I’m hearing there as well is like, although it’s a negative experience going through that, it’s also a positive experience from the perspective of you learned what you don’t like. I think from a career perspective, a big part of that is you learning what you do like, but also what you don’t like and you know, sometimes optimising your life is just about removing the things that you don’t like that don’t work, rather than adding something new.

00:28:40:16 – 00:29:00:06
Daniel Borg
If you have like a bird’s eye view of your life looking back, like as you get a bit older, you get to do that more and you sort of like Steve Jobs says, you know, you join the dots going backwards sort of, and you realize what happened, why you got that was the best thing ever. Really, really was like at the time in that, you know, a two or three year process of really trying to rediscover yourself and work it out.

00:29:00:06 – 00:29:21:18
Daniel Borg
It was hellish. It really was. But then when I read Getting Designer made that choice, I got like a HD average for the whole four years of the course. And then I got targeted out of uni and started my business and just it’s just been like a slingshot. Like I was stretching myself back. Yeah. For so long, not knowing what I wanted and, and sacrificing.

00:29:21:18 – 00:29:27:15
Daniel Borg
And then when you finally made that choice and let guys just flow, you know, and still flow and like.

00:29:28:00 – 00:29:28:16
James MacDonald
Yeah, just.

00:29:28:16 – 00:29:29:00
Daniel Borg
Try not.

00:29:29:00 – 00:29:29:16
James MacDonald
To. Yeah.

00:29:29:19 – 00:29:30:10
Daniel Borg
Not to fall.

00:29:30:13 – 00:29:48:01
James MacDonald
Yeah. All right. And I think when you’re out there sort of what I like, I like, I think I’m Yeah, no no person’s journey. Yeah. Is the same for somebody too. Yeah. There are a lot of small business to go out. You know what, if there’s so many challenges through those years. Yeah. And for you to stick through and continue to have success, like.

00:29:48:01 – 00:29:51:08
James MacDonald
Yeah, yeah. It’s a testament. Obviously the work you’ve done.

00:29:51:15 – 00:30:14:04
Daniel Borg
Yeah, it’s, it’s been a real honour just to be able to stay in Newcastle and serve so many clients and sort of build a reputation here and the fact that your reputation is, is everything, you know, your credibility. Like I have this new thought lightly, more and more like it’s the same pool, the people around you all the time, they always here it’s not like new people are coming in.

00:30:14:05 – 00:30:31:14
Daniel Borg
They are, but it’s sort of like this, this stagnant group of people and you got to get to know them more and more. Or you stuff someone and shoot yourself in the foot and, you know, all of a sudden that spreads like wildfire. So to be able to be aware of your personal brand and your own reputation is crucial and critical.

00:30:31:14 – 00:30:46:20
James MacDonald
And definitely Newcastle like, I think that’s one of the reasons I like, you know, operating a business and creating in Newcastle is the fact that I feel like Sydney and the bigger, you know, bigger cities, I have more transactional. It’s like, you know, you people, it’s just transactional. It’s about, it’s about, you know, spade and it’s about, you know, you can do it the cheapest.

00:30:46:22 – 00:31:00:18
James MacDonald
Yeah. And people can mess up in Sydney and just be fine with it because they’re like, oh yes, that’s on the back or you know, there’s a job for somebody. It doesn’t really matter because I’ll go to somebody else in Sydney. So, so many other opportunities and that word won’t ever get around because so.

00:31:00:18 – 00:31:02:02
Daniel Borg
Yeah, it’s just such a mess.

00:31:02:02 – 00:31:18:09
James MacDonald
Whereas Newcastle can pay up so that from a recruitment perspective, super relationship driven. So yeah, it’s about building relationships, building trust and if you do good work gets right. Yeah. And if you do poorly where it gets around, right. Yeah. So definitely I think it holds everyone to a higher standard as well, which is great.

00:31:18:09 – 00:31:36:12
Daniel Borg
Yeah, it’s, it’s really good and it just means you have to be aware of everything you’re doing and like it’s you get hard. Like there’s just so many cross-pollination and everyone knows everyone and just I guess when you’re when you’re authentic and incredible, like you sort of you do what you say you can do. That’s the biggest thing.

00:31:36:12 – 00:32:01:09
Daniel Borg
Like whenever I scope a project and I try to make sure I ask heaps more questions at the start than anything, because the last thing I want to do is under-deliver, you know, make sure expectations, right, because that’s where one of your credibility factors will just fall away, you know? So it’s so important to articulate everything back to people and make sure that we’re all on the same plane, I guess.

00:32:01:09 – 00:32:16:00
James MacDonald
Yeah, Well, you mentioned a bit of a design process that Ryan had. He started out be interested that especially, let’s say somebody was looking to start a business, right? Yeah. Looking at your brand and what’s the first five steps? How do they go about it if they’re going to do it on their own, I’ll come to you. Let’s start with if they are going to do it on their own.

00:32:16:00 – 00:32:26:16
James MacDonald
Yeah. Are there any there, any tips you give somebody to? I am saying a little business. I don’t have a big budget, but I want to get a brand air and a logo out there to start with. How do I go about that?

00:32:26:19 – 00:32:45:12
Daniel Borg
I think Don’t come up with a name straight away. Yeah, because a lot of people think, Oh, what’s the name? What’s a name? I think come up. Look, find out that why again, like what is the problem that you’re trying to solve and why does it help you? My customer. Yeah, because when you brainstorm that and understand what that is, the name can come from that and all of a sudden you’re communicating that from the get go.

00:32:45:15 – 00:33:02:13
Daniel Borg
Yeah. So it’s not what it is, it’s why it helps. Yeah. And then that starts to tell your story. So that’s what I like to do when I run brand workshops. Like unpack that. I mean, if someone comes back, comes to me without a name, it’s the best because I can start right back to the core root and then sort of unpack everything.

00:33:02:13 – 00:33:24:17
Daniel Borg
So I think don’t just go to a name that you think’s cool or whatever. Just try and think about the story and the your why, and then that will help you tell the story and build a brand quicker. Because if the problem is if you are solving a problem and that works for people, then that story will get told and then people the word of mouth will flourish.

00:33:24:17 – 00:33:42:06
Daniel Borg
And especially if you get that name right. And then obviously the look and feel from that. So the logo design will sort of stem from that. The brand colors, the color palette style guide, the typography, the image. So it all sort of comes back to that y you know. Yeah. So just getting that right first is the start, I think.

00:33:42:07 – 00:33:58:00
James MacDonald
Is there any hints and tips you give somebody when it comes to, Hey, I’ve got my name, I think it communicates a problem solving. Yeah, how am I going to design my leg? Am I gonna Upwork or five or something, or am I, you know, what color am I picking? Is there any hints? Yeah, in terms of don’t even.

00:33:58:00 – 00:34:15:12
Daniel Borg
Yeah, well, even my logo design style is very less is more. Yeah. So I like to play with typography but tweak it so which is what you’ve done with you. We take people right. It’s a typographic logo and I’m going to ask you a question about this. Is that right? Yeah. Is that vision straight away now?

00:34:15:12 – 00:34:19:14
James MacDonald
Is that original logo Straight Outta Compton? So. Okay, well.

00:34:19:14 – 00:34:21:09
Daniel Borg
That’s vision straight way. You know, if it’s a straight way.

00:34:21:09 – 00:34:21:23
James MacDonald
No, I don’t know.

00:34:22:01 – 00:34:31:13
Daniel Borg
It’s a Skype brand. Yeah, right. It’s like eighties, almost Mad skater. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s like vision, which is like that. Then st is like that and then wears underneath it and you’ve got it like that.

00:34:31:15 – 00:34:46:10
James MacDonald
So yeah, the Straight Outta Compton logo essentially. I think when I, when I first started it went to somebody I think I was on freelance or maybe it was like, here’s a straight I can’t do like, I hate my words. Can you make it. Yeah I put this in that. Yeah. Cos meeting I think five or ten years I’m like oh it’s down to $10.

00:34:46:12 – 00:35:03:23
Daniel Borg
Well I mean typography solutions are great, you know, because it’s just what it is. Right. So I like to then tweak the typography which is what you’re doing with the tech is putting in a block. Yeah. And you just got to think about big brands like Nike, McDonalds, Sony, Apple, just such a simple.

00:35:04:09 – 00:35:22:18
James MacDonald
Yeah, like I’m a big believer in, you know, simplicity. And for us it was like tech and like, yeah, the three words describe to them what we do, right? Yeah. And the people part was, you know, the core of that because we had people business. Yeah. I mean then black and what’s really worked for us because I think black and white allows so much you can add a pop color here and there but yes.

00:35:22:20 – 00:35:40:16
Daniel Borg
And black and white also that’s mystery like I like the mystery side of things. But but yes, I just it’s less is more typography by solution. If you want to put a symbol with it, just keep it really simple. But a symbol won’t work straight away because people have to get to know the brand. So that’s why the words are more powerful.

00:35:40:16 – 00:36:03:04
Daniel Borg
And so yeah, but I like to like, try and work back to that y aspect. There’ll be some type of metaphor that explains that. Y Yeah, then you can bring that into the typography. So say it might be a tech that you might put into the shape of a, a one of the little forms. Yeah. You know, there’s something that just makes that typography unique.

00:36:03:05 – 00:36:21:03
Daniel Borg
Yeah. That talks to that problem that you’re solving. Yeah. And I think that’s like the ultimate logo for me. Like I spend a lot of time to get that from a client side. Yeah. If you look at my website, there’s probably like 100 logos on their different brands and they’re all very simple like that. Some of them are really iconic, whether it is an icon.

00:36:21:05 – 00:36:33:01
Daniel Borg
Yeah, but that’s probably because the clients already had that and I just sort of stylize and make it look cool or whatever. Yeah, but yeah, less is more. Yeah. And that’s I think that’s the right answer for everything in life.

00:36:33:06 – 00:36:53:24
James MacDonald
Yeah. I think, I think especially especially early days with, you know, building a tech start up in particular, I think as you said, less and more. I think a lot of people waste a lot of money. I myself have I’ve done a website back in the day and spent quite a bit of money. Yeah, that offshore dev team before and just went back and burned myself But you can, you can over engineer and overthink things to start with.

00:36:53:24 – 00:37:09:23
James MacDonald
Whereas yeah a lot of a lot of the start of as building and they pay what is like the least you can actually build to find out whether you’re solving a problem. The logos again, like I feel like just there’s no point investing in somebody like yourself when you don’t have a product or figuring that out.

00:37:09:23 – 00:37:26:16
Daniel Borg
So what I’m really about is brand, not logo and branding in a logo running. So, you know, it’s like that’s the experience and beliefs and that you associate with a logo. That’s what a brand is. So that’s why I talk about the why and the story. Yeah. So when you can unpack that, you’re telling the story and all your touchpoints.

00:37:26:16 – 00:37:45:12
Daniel Borg
So from your business card to your website to your proposal to your arm, I don’t know the way you answer the phone. Yeah, they all should talk back to you. Why? And then if you’ve got a nice logo that represents your values, I suppose then all of those interactions that’s building the story and I associate with the logo.

00:37:45:16 – 00:37:49:17
Daniel Borg
Yeah. So that’s kind of what I’m trying to do for clients. It’s not just designing a logo. It’s like.

00:37:49:24 – 00:37:50:07
James MacDonald
Yeah, it’s, you.

00:37:50:08 – 00:37:51:17
Daniel Borg
Know, internet contacts.

00:37:51:17 – 00:37:59:20
James MacDonald
Yeah, Yeah. I feel like that brand experience, as you said, like your your light. I can say you are one thing. Yeah. It really, it doesn’t matter what you say. It’s how people.

00:37:59:23 – 00:38:04:23
Daniel Borg
It’s all the intangibles. Yeah. Yeah. The brain is actually what other people think of you know. Yeah. You think.

00:38:04:23 – 00:38:05:22
James MacDonald
Of it 100%.

00:38:05:24 – 00:38:23:04
Daniel Borg
And you’re trying to hack that. That’s what like because the, the sense of control that you do have as a business is you’re trying to get your own perspective out in the marketplace for people to latch onto and then using their own word of mouth. So you’re trying to hack there, which is back to that behavior sort of aspect I was talking about with psychology.

00:38:23:13 – 00:38:33:07
Daniel Borg
So you’re sort of like trying to project that there so that you hope people grab on and if they’re getting a good experience from you, an authentic experience, that’s no bullshit. That would just run like wildfire for you.

00:38:33:09 – 00:38:47:19
James MacDonald
Yeah. No, no, I like it. I like it. And then at times, you know, somebody doing it for themselves. The only real difference is someone is coming to you. You’re really workshopping that with them. Just always you’re them. Get that part right to start with.

00:38:48:04 – 00:38:48:12
Daniel Borg
Yeah.

00:38:48:12 – 00:38:49:20
James MacDonald
And then everything slides off the back.

00:38:49:20 – 00:39:05:23
Daniel Borg
Yeah. Like the graphic design comes off the back of that. So I’ve probably run about 30 or 40 workshops. I, I’ve started taking workshop seriously about two years before COVID. Yeah. So I had like two years of running a lot of workshops of my studio at Caves Beach. And then when COVID happened, I was doing them all on Zoom.

00:39:05:23 – 00:39:09:14
Daniel Borg
I did a few like I did Gallery Cyber on Zoom, and that was one to.

00:39:09:15 – 00:39:10:15
James MacDonald
Shout, Shout out, to.

00:39:11:00 – 00:39:28:11
Daniel Borg
Shout out to call. Yeah. And now I’ve got my new studio is a bigger space and it’s dedicated like the other one was at home. I just love to run workshops. Like I just have heaps of fun. Yeah, and it should be fun. Like, yeah, I don’t want to get style and boring and tedious. Yeah, it’s got to be sparking and firing, you know?

00:39:28:14 – 00:39:43:04
James MacDonald
Speaking of that, the Zoom verse that I have, I’ve sat through many workshops in my day. Yeah, I definitely find those in-person ones more engaging. Yeah. Then workshops are significantly hotter. I’m virtually right, yeah. Is that been your experience?

00:39:43:04 – 00:40:02:05
Daniel Borg
Yeah. I mean these are workshop, but a lot of the time it’s one on one side. Workshops sort of tend to think more than people, but we’re kind of workshopping ideas as well. I like to use that term, but yeah, there’s nothing beats us sitting in the physical space. Are you going to have lunch like I’m at Cave’s, which is near the Caves Resort and there’s a few new restaurants around there.

00:40:02:05 – 00:40:06:08
Daniel Borg
So we might spend 2 hours workshopping. Then we’ll go to the resort and have a lunch and a.

00:40:06:18 – 00:40:07:11
James MacDonald
Good feed there.

00:40:07:11 – 00:40:25:08
Daniel Borg
Yeah, he just continues there and you come back and these basically wrap it up and to me, it’s about as a designer, you’ve got to kind of get inside your client’s head. So you’re trying to like really get close to them and become like a mate, you know, like because you’ve got to think, see how they’re thinking and then put yourself in their client’s head.

00:40:25:18 – 00:40:49:02
Daniel Borg
So that’s what I think the workshop experience is the most the quickest way I can build of rapport with people. Yeah, and help me unpack it because there’s still a lot of trial and error after that. Like once we start giving you concepts, which is based on the outcomes of the workshop, it’s still not going to be perfect, but you’ve got that data that’s come out of the workshop to then talk back to and go, Is this what we said in the workshop?

00:40:49:02 – 00:40:54:06
Daniel Borg
Yeah, or not? And that. So that’s a really good metric, a way to sort of keep us on the right track.

00:40:54:15 – 00:41:11:22
James MacDonald
I like it. Yeah, I like it. You’re busy, man. Obviously work on multiple clients on the service based industry and see I can get pretty hectic. I know that I’m working on that. Managing your own business. How have you stayed on top of that over the years, etc.? It sounds like you do a lot of personal development.

00:41:12:14 – 00:41:34:11
Daniel Borg
Yeah, there is a there’s an engineering part of that. Yeah. Which so when I did mechanical engineering and worked in the engineering space, Excel spreadsheets was massive, like almost like dashboards that were custom built. That’s how I remember working with an engineer. And he showed me showing him my Excel, his Excel spreadsheet of, all of the different material parts and how they all worked on them.

00:41:34:13 – 00:41:55:03
Daniel Borg
So and I’m just like blown away at the level of complexity and detail of that spreadsheet. And that stayed with my mind when I started business. So I’ve set up my own dashboards in Excel, which sounds a bit like old fashioned something because I’m not using something like HubSpot or some sort of fancy CRM, but I love Excel because I can totally customise it to whatever.

00:41:55:03 – 00:42:21:17
Daniel Borg
Yeah, and I’m big on time management and I basically record every hour of every day. So even right now, this is in my timesheet as you know. Marketing. Yeah. A podcast. Yeah. And that gets associated into other spreadsheets and I get average sales for everything I’ve done. Yeah. So every kind of project I’ve got from logo design to web development to web maintenance to public speaking to photography, I’ve got an average now because I’ve got seven plus years worth of data.

00:42:21:17 – 00:42:38:17
Daniel Borg
Yeah, and I keep it all in there and I all talk to other spreadsheets. So, you know, with macros and different cells talking to cells, you can basically I can get a year on year percentage. I’m always keep myself accountable to my data. Yeah. And basically data is king when it comes to that. It just helps keep the confidence.

00:42:38:17 – 00:42:57:17
Daniel Borg
Yeah. So I’m I have about 40 projects going on at any one time. That’s my average. Yeah. I can go down to say 15, I can go up to 60, but otherwise it’s around 40 and that’s all, you know, working progress spreadsheet, for example. So I can get a view of everything that’s happening right now and that links to that particular project spreadsheet, which then goes to a completed.

00:42:57:17 – 00:43:03:18
Daniel Borg
So the whole of 17 years worth of projects are there and I can get obviously all the different statistical.

00:43:03:22 – 00:43:04:06
James MacDonald
Yeah.

00:43:04:19 – 00:43:25:08
Daniel Borg
Metrics from that and that just helps me understand like I can see my business at a minute’s notice of where I am with all my projects. Yeah. So it gives you confidence and it gives you like you know about Parade, I’ve got priorities as I just apply that principle all the time when you’re looking at that data. So what’s the most important what’s, what’s the 30% and Soulsby 70%.

00:43:25:08 – 00:43:27:18
Daniel Borg
Yeah. Well that sort of stuff. Engineering.

00:43:27:18 – 00:43:42:01
James MacDonald
Yeah. No, no, I like it. I like it. Yeah. It’s always, everyone’s got a different approach. Yeah. You know, I would say tactical enough to be able to build that out. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I think the accountability is a big part, especially in a small business. Are you, you know, if you came yourself accountable you don’t have, you know, oh my.

00:43:42:02 – 00:43:52:17
James MacDonald
And maybe you offer better day, you don’t have, you know, another business, Zac, or somebody coming down or keeping you accountable. I think, you know, that type of approach that you just got out of that is really solid.

00:43:52:17 – 00:44:17:11
Daniel Borg
It is my like, I review it every week because I have to entering from my weekly time sheet into my project. Time sheet. Yeah. And I get like a working on the business versus working in a business sort of result every, every week. And you get accountable. You go and when you look at that, over time you go, Geez, I’m spending like maybe 15 hours on average on the business rather than I should be making at least 25 in the business.

00:44:17:11 – 00:44:21:01
Daniel Borg
I always accountable that and you always it’s like a competition against yourself.

00:44:21:02 – 00:44:31:11
James MacDonald
That’s good because I imagine there’ll be times as well where you work too much in the business and then, you know, you’re really busy, really busy, really busy. And then you find out, Oh, I got a lack of work coming up because you haven’t done any work on the business.

00:44:31:11 – 00:44:48:12
Daniel Borg
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I find like, I like what gets me work. That’s probably the biggest thing. Like I’m in case mates. I’m not really, like in the tech scene or whatever. So I use social media a lot. Like I post pretty much every day. Now that’s been part of my new strategy. Yeah, it’s not about the likes or the comments you get.

00:44:48:12 – 00:45:05:15
Daniel Borg
It’s just that people see that you’re active and doing work because then when I, I don’t know if I’m going off tangent, but when I meet someone they’ll tell me about a project that I know I’ve done and that I know that they haven’t liked it or comment it, but I do see it. So it actually works and it sort of gets in people’s brain.

00:45:05:15 – 00:45:22:08
Daniel Borg
So that I think what my point is, is you’ve got to stay relevant and you’ve got to be showing that you’re active just to show that you exist and that you’re doing things. But what’s the point with all that? Because I’ve actually just got off school.

00:45:22:17 – 00:45:27:13
James MacDonald
I really I was in around that productivity pace, right? Like, hey, like, you know, in the business versus in the business.

00:45:27:13 – 00:45:48:23
Daniel Borg
Yeah. So that’s, that’s, that’s right. So I’ve had to spend a lot of time on social lately because I’ve got my new studio and I’ve sort of gone into a bit of a growth kick. So I’m having to do that. So that’s working on the business rather than, you know, Yeah, but I’ve got another designer that works for me, so she’s hard not for, but, but I put that back into my systems and I can track that and I go, Well, now it’s time I’ve done some work.

00:45:48:23 – 00:45:56:19
Daniel Borg
Now it’s time to then go back and focus on another space. So just that measurement keeps you accountable. What you can’t improve, what you can’t measure.

00:45:57:02 – 00:46:07:00
James MacDonald
And I like it. I like it a lot, madam. I think an attack of a low attacker, you know, where you go to if you’re international attacker, you know, your productivity just. Is there any other tool or.

00:46:07:03 – 00:46:22:20
Daniel Borg
That’s funny. I’ve been using Slack a lot, which I know everyone uses a lot, especially in the tech field. But I started using it like in the middle of COVID and I just couldn’t get it. Like, Yeah, but I’m also using Discord and that’s like Slack. But you’re kind of talking to the server all the time. Yeah.

00:46:23:02 – 00:46:26:21
James MacDonald
And what is Discord for me? Journey Yeah.

00:46:27:05 – 00:46:40:20
Daniel Borg
I it’s just amazing. It’s like talking to a robot all the time and like, give back and yeah, you can use it with there’s a couple of other tools that are using it to now some sort of use it for that. But, but I find discord is kind of like Slack.

00:46:41:05 – 00:46:42:16
James MacDonald
Yeah. Just like a command prompt.

00:46:42:16 – 00:46:44:11
Daniel Borg
That’s just kind of a command probe, basically.

00:46:44:11 – 00:46:52:11
James MacDonald
Yeah. There’s a lot of discord communities that popped up during COVID, it’s all in and around the NFT. Yeah, I have to say masses, they were massive and they sold out.

00:46:52:24 – 00:47:16:01
Daniel Borg
I went down that rabbit hole. I didn’t invest, but I was creating some. Yeah. And I sort of did a minimum viable product. And I’m glad that that’s what we did because we didn’t go all in. And I’m glad because it was the right move with what’s out. But yeah, so Slack is awesome. Like just kind of like how like the Slack bought, you know, because it is like talking to an AI in a way and yeah, and I’m like, I use it now to brief my designer.

00:47:16:01 – 00:47:29:01
Daniel Borg
So basically we’ve just got a running brief going there and she just checks in and that’s just cut down all this time where I’m not having to like, stop and start. And I’m like, Yeah, but that’s, that’s amazing. And yeah, I got my head around it and I finally clicked.

00:47:29:04 – 00:47:43:21
James MacDonald
Oh, my. You mentioned earlier on this day, like early on in our career was just new tools will come. Yeah. Figure out what works for you, what doesn’t, what’s beneficiary what’s that But you have to you have to give a lot of them. Maybe not all of them, but you have to give a lot of them to try to find out where they are going to work.

00:47:43:21 – 00:47:48:06
James MacDonald
They’re going to be beneficial for you. And if they do, you know, going down that rabbit hole and.

00:47:48:06 – 00:47:50:02
Daniel Borg
Yeah, and they don’t love that word rabbit hole.

00:47:50:11 – 00:47:56:03
James MacDonald
Sort of like that was like learning a new technology at staying abreast of that. So yeah, that’s really good.

00:47:56:07 – 00:48:18:03
Daniel Borg
Then I might add, as is just the way that you’ve got to keep writing and like, like living out of Caves Beach, It’s like you look at the ocean every day, you just see that horizon and you just realize how small we really are and not let things affect you that much. You know, like let’s just ride the waves and paddle out again and pick another one.

00:48:18:03 – 00:48:26:19
Daniel Borg
And that’s yeah, it’s not taking life too seriously. I think that’s that’s the biggest thing I’ll take away from any of this stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:26:21 – 00:48:30:22
James MacDonald
Pure from it. Yeah. I think that’s a nice way to finish up my finishing message.

00:48:31:07 – 00:48:37:11
Daniel Borg
Are I appreciate my like it’s awesome what you guys are doing and I really appreciate the opportunity to come on eBay. It’s fantastic.

00:48:37:20 – 00:48:44:06
James MacDonald
It’s good to see that. Very thankful to have you and hopefully some of the Newcastle community that did know who you are now do that.

00:48:44:07 – 00:48:44:21
Daniel Borg
Fantastic.

00:48:44:22 – 00:48:52:03
James MacDonald
Again, thank you, Daniel. Oh, quickly. Yeah, if people do want to find out a little bit more about who you are and you know your designs.

00:48:52:20 – 00:49:04:06
Daniel Borg
Like my website psyborg® dot com a piece wire psychology dot com that I you blog don’t come to you that’s the same on socials and Daniel Borg for LinkedIn and yeah we’ll.

00:49:04:06 – 00:49:07:09
James MacDonald
Link them all up in the show notes Matt appreciate it thanks for coming in here.

00:49:07:13 – 00:49:09:04
Daniel Borg
With you. It’s like.

00:49:09:24 – 00:49:10:06
James MacDonald
Gosh.