In this episode of the NewyTechPeople Podcast, we sit down with Amanda Maykot, Product Design Manager at REA Group, to discuss her career to date. Amanda shares insights from working in product design and management, including what she’s learned from women in leadership positions and the importance of mentorship.

We also discuss career advice for younger designers and how mentorship can help guide your professional development. If you’re interested in a career in product design or management, this episode is a must-listen.

Listen now on your favourite podcast platform.

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Show Notes

Here you can source all the things we have talked about in the podcast whether that be books, events, meet-up groups and what’s new in the Newcastle tech scene.

• • Amanda’s LinkedIn
  • REA Group’s LinkedIn
  • REA Group’s Website

Find all local Newcastle Technology Events

• Event’s Page

00:00:19:23 – 00:00:32:21
Ellen Bennett
Thank you so much for joining us for another digitally diverse podcast. Today, we have the honour of having Amanda Maykot Product Design Manager joining us. Thank you for joining us, Amanda.

00:00:33:02 – 00:00:34:12
Amanda Maykot
Thank you for having me.

00:00:34:14 – 00:00:40:08
Ellen Bennett
First of all, I really love an overview of where you’ve come from in your career today.

00:00:40:08 – 00:01:08:05
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, sure. So as you can probably tell from my accent, a Brazilian and from South America, I was born in a small city in the south of Brazil, lived in Spain in a couple of cities as well, and moved to Australia six or seven years ago. Basically in my career I started working in visual graphic design. Graphic design, as we used to say, No more like visual works of local agencies focused more on branding, packaging, visual design.

00:01:08:07 – 00:01:30:23
Amanda Maykot
That was pretty much like everything that I’ve done for, I don’t know, I would say for the next ten years of my the beginning of my career, when I moved to Seville to study and then to do a post-graduation in Barcelona, in digital, in creative strategy, that’s when I started working more in a digital environment. But at the very beginning I was very focused on branding and packaging and I really love that space.

00:01:31:03 – 00:01:49:22
Amanda Maykot
Fun fact is that when I moved to Spain for the first time, I had like a no experience talk in Spanish at all. So it was all learned by doing. And I just feel that ability has been following my entire life. I am really good at learning by doing and trying to, you know, try things myself and then I see if it worked or not.

00:01:50:00 – 00:02:10:23
Amanda Maykot
I lived there in ten years and Rio went back to Brazil after Barcelona, lived in Rio and had the absolute pleasure to work with. The most amazing people have some amazing ears living in Rio, working in total design, which is probably the best agency in Brazil, or if not one of the very best ones, worked in projects for Rio 2016.

00:02:11:01 – 00:02:34:08
Amanda Maykot
During the Olympics, we created the brand for for the Olympic Games 2016, and also I led the Coca-Cola design team and it was an amazing experience. Was my first time doing it. The sort of leadership role, learned a lot, made a lot of mistakes, and it was really, really fun. After that, I worked in advertising as maybe almost all designers in the world.

00:02:34:10 – 00:03:00:19
Amanda Maykot
We ended up always in a little bit about advertising, spend a few years working at Ogilvy, did some really great projects, won a couple of awards, which was really incredible and learned a lot about teamwork and leadership. And the funny thing is that was within working in this advertising environment that I started to work on some social impact initiatives, which is something that I’ve always been trying to do in my role since then.

00:03:00:21 – 00:03:36:22
Amanda Maykot
So we created a rowing goal, which is a multi-functional piece designed to help the refugees who are fleeing from Syria to Europe. And we got in a war for that. And it’s it was an exhibition in Amsterdam Museum for a couple of months. So it was an incredible experience as well. And I moved to Sydney seven years ago and in here I’ve had the chance to work in just working in digital projects and then start as a freelancer, create a couple of ideas as well, like follow up, which is just a concept, but opened me a couple of doors in the market as well to work with the New South Wales National Parks Trail, which

00:03:36:22 – 00:03:48:17
Amanda Maykot
is a new start up now quite big that has been reinventing the entire way we do travel in transcended, we travel the world and now working at REI for the last almost one year.

00:03:48:19 – 00:04:13:21
Ellen Bennett
There’s so many things I want to dive into it I think. Yeah, one thing that you that you touched on about learning by doing and those skills that you picked up when you moved from Brazil to Spain, you don’t you never forget those life skills of just getting stuck in and learning in the moment. What is there any other situations that have come up lately where you felt like you had to rely on that?

00:04:14:02 – 00:04:44:05
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, I think leadership roles, it’s always learn by doing, and I constantly caught myself thinking that I shouldn’t. Between this I for me to become a leader, I have to do an MBA or a masters degree or I have to restart my career. So I feel that this kind of a feeling that I will just go and try and then I will not be the best one at first, but then I’ll try the second time and then the third and fourth until the moment that I do feel comfortable and that starts becoming my comfort zone.

00:04:44:07 – 00:04:52:23
Amanda Maykot
I feel that’s been like probably my the biggest pattern of my life. And I, I learned to really enjoy that feeling that I can do anything I put my eggs in.

00:04:53:02 – 00:04:59:09
Ellen Bennett
So I’m here to tell us about your role with Aria and what kind of problems are you solving there?

00:04:59:12 – 00:05:19:12
Amanda Maykot
That’s a really interesting question because when I joined Aria, I remember my first interview, I was feeling that I know everything about property, about real estate, because that’s my hobby for the last, I don’t know, ten years. I love going to the apps that, you know, any app that are out there in the market at ARIA and Australia.

00:05:19:12 – 00:05:40:07
Amanda Maykot
Yeah. And I would say like hours before going to bed, just seeing things up there. How is what’s for rent, what’s for selling and what’s the market, how is the market looking like. So when I did my interview, it was like, look, I’m an expert, I know everything about property. What happened is that when I joined REA, well, we know the app in the website for real estate, they’ll come at you.

00:05:40:07 – 00:06:02:12
Amanda Maykot
It’s just a little tip of the iceberg. There is a whole universe that leaves underneath that surface. So I’m still learning. I just feel that it’s going to take me years to understand everything that we do. But so I just tried to summarise. I joined as a product design manager. It was like almost one year ago I lead a team of four people in a space that we called Agency Marketplace.

00:06:02:12 – 00:06:35:03
Amanda Maykot
And basically what we do is to reimagine the way consumers, which are people like you and I, sellers or buyers or renters and customers, what we call like the agencies, sales agents or property managers, etc., how they connect. So basically what my tribe and MySpace do is to create the platforms, experiences, the interfaces that design communications and notification, etc. that will connect the right consumer to the right customer so we can change the way the world experiences property, which is our mission.

00:06:35:03 – 00:06:36:17
Amanda Maykot
It are you drive so.

00:06:36:17 – 00:07:02:01
Ellen Bennett
Cool because yeah, you’re like, I’m a lucky person trying to buy a house at the moment. And I yeah, I feel like I spend my whole life on real estate. Dot com You And why. I just, I don’t, I probably see like 5% of what that platform actually is. So yeah, because you’re right, the real estate agents would see a completely different side of the platform to what a regular user would.

00:07:02:01 – 00:07:04:09
Ellen Bennett
So yeah, super interesting.

00:07:04:13 – 00:07:23:21
Amanda Maykot
Yeah. And within REA it’s funny because what we know Yes. As buyers and sellers or renters, what we see it’s the, the rent app what we call which is that real estate like on the EU both app and website. However there is like a whole bunch of all the systems that we have. One of them is like flatmates that you have the EU.

00:07:23:23 – 00:07:43:13
Amanda Maykot
The other one, it’s real commercial on the EU focused on all the properties and I mean yeah, Ignite, which is another feature, another platform designed for the customers and you know, principals and sales agents, property managers see to manage their space. So yeah, it’s a, it’s a really big ecosystem to be working on. Yeah.

00:07:43:15 – 00:07:49:05
Ellen Bennett
So what are the high priority problems that you and your team are dealing with at the moment?

00:07:49:07 – 00:08:19:04
Amanda Maykot
Are we separate, Not separate, but we approach the design, the customer and consumer problems into on the two teams, the consumer and the customer. I as I know as you know, I work on the customer space. I think one of the biggest ones that we want to focus for the next couple of months, it will be to dive more into understanding what are our customer needs, what are their jobs, are so sorry to say jobs are not talking about the roles, but there are jobs to be done.

00:08:19:04 – 00:08:45:21
Amanda Maykot
There are problems. There are challenges every day. The pain points, the experience utilising different platforms and managing CRMs. And then our platforms and then, you know, go to inspections and everything, openings, everything that we know. It’s part of their day to day. We want to understand that in detail so we can continue providing innovation and new tools, new features to to help them manage, manage this entire routine.

00:08:45:21 – 00:09:07:01
Amanda Maykot
And also another good thing that we are trying to do at our age to kind of overall, it’s to help the consumers, people like you and I, to find the right people, to help me, help us to find the property, even for, say, A for selling or buying. But it’s important that they find the right agency and the right agent that will go with them throughout that journey.

00:09:07:03 – 00:09:14:08
Amanda Maykot
It’s not just about concluding and, you know, completing the transaction, but also finding someone that’s going to help you along the way. It’s really key to us.

00:09:14:12 – 00:09:39:00
Ellen Bennett
Helping the potential buyer or somebody actually go through the whole process and have it as seamless as possible. I don’t know if it’ll ever get because it maybe because. So what kind of like research are you yourself involved with the research and being on the ground to find out those pain points? Or do you guys have a like a dedicated research team to do that?

00:09:39:02 – 00:09:59:17
Amanda Maykot
Are we really lucky to have a really experienced team of researchers? They work with us not only validating the experiences that we are designing or that we are detached, that we are already conducting, but they also help us, the design leaders, to understand what are the opportunities for the the places that we can create an impact on the customer’s day to day life.

00:09:59:18 – 00:10:07:09
Amanda Maykot
So it’s great that we have this kind of two side approach and we can use the research team and they can help us with their that.

00:10:07:11 – 00:10:28:12
Ellen Bennett
I, I think the more and more platforms and companies are now starting to rely on UX research, which I think is so, so great because it just makes everyone’s life a bit easier. You really do get to the bottom of things a lot quicker and a lot more efficiently and yeah, is that, is that how you’ve found working with the dedicated team?

00:10:28:14 – 00:10:47:06
Amanda Maykot
Yeah. There is also another point. You’re absolutely right. But I also I’m also going to add one of the things that we do at RPA, which I think it’s like really amazing, is to have the research team also be in it’s what we call the capability team. So they are helping, they are helping to upskill the designers, whatever.

00:10:47:06 – 00:11:16:01
Amanda Maykot
If it’s an associate or a mid-level designer or senior one or the design managers, everyone in the design team has the chance to actually upskill their abilities in conducting and planning or preparing research. So I think they are a very, very key part of everything that we do. They not just guide us or they lead their pieces to themselves, but they also help us, you know, improve our ways of doing research, of defining the methodology that we want to follow, providing frameworks.

00:11:16:03 – 00:11:19:04
Amanda Maykot
So the also upskilling the team alongside the.

00:11:19:06 – 00:11:27:11
Ellen Bennett
Fantastic what that. So Amanda, what would you like to tell the audience about the team and the culture at RPA?

00:11:27:13 – 00:11:53:10
Amanda Maykot
It’s funny because when I joined RPA, I was really impressed at the very beginning on the balance on gender equality. And when I say that I work with companies where I had like women in leadership positions and we also had like how women growing into leadership positions. But I feel that it was really impressive how the company has like multiple different people to diversity in leadership positions.

00:11:53:10 – 00:12:18:07
Amanda Maykot
It’s like very it’s very insane, It’s very balanced. And when I say balance, I’m not talking 70, 30 or something close. I’m talking see that 50 in the executive leadership team, we do have half, half female and male leaders. Also, when we are talking about if we go to the design community, the design world, we also have the amount of product design managers.

00:12:18:09 – 00:12:54:17
Amanda Maykot
Actually now it’s currently a little bit over four more women than men. And also the the head, the senior product design managers. We are also now in two women and one in. It’s not just seeing that happening for one or two people. I think just seeing that that was part of a pattern, it was part of the culture and it was like encouraging the managers were encouraging women to grow and women to challenge themselves and, you know, like don’t doubt themselves at the time, as we probably we probably grow up asking ourselves too many questions if we are capable.

00:12:54:17 – 00:13:15:15
Amanda Maykot
Do we know enough? Are we good enough? Can I make an impact or they know better than I do? So I feel that really encourages and provides a lot of support in terms of even courses or workshops and stuff to promote and have the same approach and have the same results for women and men in leadership and career progression.

00:13:15:16 – 00:13:35:01
Amanda Maykot
That’s probably the most amazing thing in terms of culture, but also the mental health approach that has. It’s really, really strong the work life balance in wellbeing. And it’s like something that we speak every day and I really enjoy talking about this with my direct reports. I really love to make sure that they are, you know, wrapping up at the right time.

00:13:35:01 – 00:14:06:14
Amanda Maykot
They are starting at the at the right time that they have flexibility if they want to do something else, if they want to manage their their work time. I am always trying to make sure that they are putting their their families first and their, you know, personal life first because and then you just see that in the day to day life when when people feel happy and feel supported, they just work with more like willingness to do something big, to create an impact and to help others and then to share what they know.

00:14:06:16 – 00:14:11:12
Amanda Maykot
So I think this culture of trust, it’s it’s really it’s really great. And I’m really happy to see that every day.

00:14:11:14 – 00:14:36:19
Ellen Bennett
Especially with, you know, seeing seeing other women in leadership positions and kind of like getting that validation from the higher ups as it does like people do notice, like, yeah, you can’t be what you can’t see. It’s so important like that. We see visually like, okay, if she’s done it, I can do it. Or you know, maybe it’s someone with a disability, like they can do it.

00:14:36:19 – 00:14:58:06
Ellen Bennett
I can do it like it’s Yeah, 100%. And it’s great that you’re advocating to your team as well to really take advantage of those resources, because I feel like sometimes it’s so hard for a junior to, you know, it’s their first big job and they don’t want to clock off if everyone else’s is working still. So yeah, yeah, I hear so many stories about that.

00:14:58:06 – 00:14:59:20
Ellen Bennett
So I know that’s fantastic.

00:15:00:01 – 00:15:22:15
Amanda Maykot
There is one funny story that I noticed last year. I was exploring those channels. So as you know, I mean, Slack is the place to on the reset everything that’s going on. There is one space, one select channel called Neurodiversity. So I struggle with burnout in the past, and I struggle daily with anxiety. I’m working really well across it, but I mean to to go over it.

00:15:22:15 – 00:15:44:17
Amanda Maykot
But it’s it’s something that I know it’s always right here. I just have to make sure that it’s kind of everything is fine in there. So I found this neurodiversity channel and people are people who sometimes have like ADHD or I don’t know, they can have like anything in terms of like a mental mental health issues or they’re just going through a difficult time.

00:15:44:19 – 00:16:05:01
Amanda Maykot
And it’s a place where everyone it’s really open sharing tips, you know, some changes on their routine that help them to, you know, perform better or to live their life better or sleep better. I just feel that if this is something that we talk, it’s natural and everyone can accept and knows how to deal with it.

00:16:05:01 – 00:16:22:20
Ellen Bennett
And that like openness. Yeah, yeah. Like you can deal with it so much better if you’re, you know, just open about it. And if you know, even if it is just like a mental health issue or, you know, something work related, everything’s better when you just talk it out and figure it out with two brains rather than one.

00:16:22:20 – 00:16:24:16
Ellen Bennett
So yeah, that’s awesome.

00:16:24:18 – 00:16:40:09
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, exactly. And they just voice it out. It’s easy to just like, raise your hand and say that you are struggling with this or that or you have this or that condition and you just go like transparency leads both ways, if that’s part of a company culture, definitely.

00:16:40:11 – 00:16:48:13
Ellen Bennett
So what higher education pathway did you take and would you recommend it? Would you recommend it or choose it? Again?

00:16:48:15 – 00:17:13:09
Amanda Maykot
That’s tricky. I mean, my career pathways was very predictable. I graduated in graphic design. I mean design and then major in graphics. It was it’s really helpful. And I almost feel that this is the right way to start, if that’s something that we can say, because it gives me like a really good experience and knowledge on communicating, saying, communicating through anything and platforms in general.

00:17:13:09 – 00:17:40:21
Amanda Maykot
So I do feel like very comfortable with visual presentations or creative putting interfaces together or any sort of communication newsletter or anything. I do feel that there is a lack in understanding data or, you know, like anything that it’s a little bit too detail. Of course I can handle data in a high level, but diving into exploring data or going like a little bit deeper on technology and understanding the different languages, and I just feel that that’s something that was missing.

00:17:40:21 – 00:18:04:10
Amanda Maykot
So I’ve been doing some courses and I’ve been trying to work around this lack of knowledge, and I would definitely encourage other designers if they have the chance, if they have like a similar background, to go a little bit more, a little bit heavier in understanding the different different platforms or the limitations for backend frontend. What makes you to make this or that choice is when you’re creating different journeys.

00:18:04:14 – 00:18:13:01
Amanda Maykot
I think that’s like definitely a plus. When I see a candidate that has a good, a good understanding of, of both data and.

00:18:13:05 – 00:18:46:05
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, you’re right, like a lot of the higher education or tertiary degrees do very much focus on like design foundations and a lot of theoretical almost like art and advertising leaning design. And when I, I studied design at uni and that’s what I had, I had a very traditional theoretical degree and you’re right, I graduated and I didn’t really know what UX in UI was because I just wasn’t really taught and now it’s like, that’s the way that everything’s going.

00:18:46:05 – 00:19:04:20
Ellen Bennett
So yeah, I think you’re really spot on there with focusing on the tech side of things. It’s only going to become a bit more prevalent and there is definitely still a place for that theoretical classic design education. But in more of like a practical sense, it’s good to get a good grasp on the tech side of things too.

00:19:04:21 – 00:19:24:23
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, I think you’re really right. There is absolutely the place, actually. It’s something that it’s very foundational for all of us to, to know and knowing how to execute, knowing how to use to, you know, creating this template or creating this visual and laying out the right components and finding the right balance, I think that’s a must. No.

00:19:25:04 – 00:19:47:06
Amanda Maykot
But also, I would like to have a little bit like the same foundation that I have with visual communication and all sorts of imagery understanding that I do have. I would like to have the same with tech as well. I don’t think you can have one without the other. I currently try to find the balance, but I think like the the best professionals are the ones that I look to join my team.

00:19:47:07 – 00:20:11:17
Amanda Maykot
It’s great when I see that they do have this understanding of creating, putting together the UI and also sorry. And then there is one. There is like a is a three pillars tubular systems that that actually it’s it’s great. It’s like the UI understanding or at least being capable to manage UX as well and define the experience. And sometimes that will go without any sort of visual at all.

00:20:11:22 – 00:20:34:12
Amanda Maykot
And also the implement ability or understanding tech because you’re going to drive lots of conversations with tech team, you know, you’re limited, so you know the limitations. What can be implemented, what can I, what’s difficult to to, to bring to, you know, to release what this this search bar is going to take. So I’m out of time. So if we can avoid that through a different component.

00:20:34:14 – 00:20:38:20
Amanda Maykot
So I think that’s kind of the three at the makes the agree.

00:20:38:22 – 00:20:46:03
Ellen Bennett
100% right you can build the most beautiful, beautiful, beautiful interface. But if it can’t be built, it can’t be built.

00:20:46:05 – 00:20:57:02
Amanda Maykot
That’s yeah, I think that application is awful if you know if you have to take many steps to achieve the same thing that you could do easily, it’s also like not great. So I think it’s like it’s a good definitely as well.

00:20:57:02 – 00:21:08:00
Ellen Bennett
I guess being that you had quite a traditional design degree background, what was there a catalyst to make you want to go down more of a tech route?

00:21:08:02 – 00:21:43:13
Amanda Maykot
You remember when I talked to you about this refugee project that we’ve done, that I’ve done with the team in the past? I think that’s what that’s when I realised it was 2012, I think, sorry, 13. And that’s when I realised that I was always thinking about something like a something technical, something physical. And I realised that I would have a much, much bigger impact if I was creating like a digital product to help these people, to help people fleeing from a war zone or something and jump starting their life and then your country.

00:21:43:15 – 00:22:03:07
Amanda Maykot
So I started to see like the the impact that I wanted to having people’s life was much bigger when I was thinking digitally in even light the release, you can this agile approach that you can do something faster, then you can keep iterating on it and keep measuring the impact and then going back to the drawing board and improving the experience.

00:22:03:09 – 00:22:40:01
Amanda Maykot
So I started doing more and more projects like that. And then also I moved to Australia, which gave me like who was the the catalyst to move from half offline, half online, to be fully digital focused. And also I believe that it’s a it’s a really rich environment for you to play on. Like you can you can play with you can design things for, I don’t know, the real estate industry, but also the travel industry and then national parks, who would have said you experience a national parks and you can also improve your experience by, you know, booking accommodations through their website and their apps.

00:22:40:03 – 00:22:46:09
Amanda Maykot
So I think we can have an impact in basically everything through a digital experience. That is why you’re here.

00:22:46:09 – 00:23:08:05
Ellen Bennett
Is that right? Do I like it? Does open so many doors when you when you start looking into like career in tech or how much impact that you can have on a user because we all use tech every day. So someone’s behind the UI of everything that we use and the experience. So yeah, I love that. That’s a really cool.

00:23:08:07 – 00:23:31:01
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, it’s interesting. Really interesting that as users we take things for granted, right? So like I used or I used to use our app real estate app every night and I thought it was like this small, It was just like that part of experience. So I think we take things all this stage of our experiences for granted without understanding all the complexity that’s behind, that’s for everything.

00:23:31:01 – 00:23:49:15
Amanda Maykot
That’s what the New South Wales national parks, that’s for Medicare. So I think there is also there was always space for designers to, to improve the experience and make people’s life a little bit better and that we go step by step into creating like a remarkable experience that it’s completely invisible. That means that it’s.

00:23:49:17 – 00:24:09:00
Ellen Bennett
Yes, if you’re not thinking about it, that means that you’ve done a good job. Yeah, Well, I guess in regards to like, you know, you mentioned design and Aria in particular is kind of like an iceberg where, you know, the user or a regular person using the app might only see a tiny, tiny tip of the iceberg, but there’s a lot more underneath.

00:24:09:01 – 00:24:21:11
Ellen Bennett
Do you have any advice to give to like younger designers perhaps, or people that are going through uni at the moment? Any advice as to how to tackle that iceberg?

00:24:21:13 – 00:25:03:22
Amanda Maykot
I would go at the advice that no one gave to me was understanding your skills as not the things that you can do, especially in design. We are very attached to, you know, deliverables and, you know, very clear visual sometimes like a tangible outcomes and understanding that your skills are also like communication with stakeholders and planning, putting together like a map of all the experiences that will deliver this product or, you know, understanding the complexity of what you’re doing, not just through the designs that you’re executing, but also like the ecosystem and this kind of all the relationships that we had to create a work in.

00:25:03:22 – 00:25:36:17
Amanda Maykot
I’ve work with some associate designers that could understand that, that they were not their job was not just to create the interface, the design, make it beautiful for this only, but understanding the whole thing. I think that’s something that I’ll be forever learning. And and we never stop understanding what we are capable of. If we if you can if you can leave uni seeing your potential to communication, to driving meetings, to facilitating workshops to Yeah.

00:25:36:21 – 00:25:44:02
Amanda Maykot
Putting together design plans. I think that’s, that’s what differentiates you from other designers and candidates are out there.

00:25:44:02 – 00:25:45:17
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. I think that’s.

00:25:45:19 – 00:25:54:09
Amanda Maykot
It also helps with the self-confidence as well. Like how, how you Yeah. How you put yourself out there because you know your value.

00:25:54:11 – 00:26:14:02
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. Those soft skills are just important as the hard skills. That’s great. So, Amanda, going off, what advice that you’d give to young designers, is there any particular advice that you would give to perhaps aspiring women in tech that want to become leaders in their field?

00:26:14:07 – 00:26:44:03
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, I love this question. And the reason is because I feel that we as women, I mean, student and recently grads, we do have the I feel that we have this impression that your capacity, your talent is on creating specific things. So, for example, creating designs for these great, you know, creating logos or, you know, for this branding or creating exterior user flows for whatever experience you are designing.

00:26:44:05 – 00:27:07:12
Amanda Maykot
And sometimes I think our value also leaves in the soft skills and how much you can drive conversation, you can communicate with stakeholders, how much you can plan ahead in your workload, or how much you can foresee your roadmap. And you can understand that your job is just one piece of this entire big roadmap that’s delivering a bigger outcome.

00:27:07:13 – 00:27:31:13
Amanda Maykot
So I feel that for risk for for grads or for for women specifically understanding your potential, the value of your communication skills, how much you can add to your team by being a team player, by being available, by connecting the dots, by talking to others and understanding what’s their role in the product or in the experience that you guys are building together.

00:27:31:15 – 00:27:56:12
Amanda Maykot
I think that makes like a designer just not part of the execution, but part of the the leadership, part of the thinking, the strategy as well. It took me many years to realize that it was not just about the quality of what I was delivering, it was about what I was facilitating. So I think seeing designers as facilitators, it’s one of the yeah, kind of blew my mind and changed the way I was seen.

00:27:56:12 – 00:27:57:01
Amanda Maykot
I mean.

00:27:57:03 – 00:28:26:18
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, I get that because I don’t get that right now. Like it’s so that’s so true. I like so much of design is that facilitation pace and the communication piece and connecting with your teammates and users and stakeholders and yeah, just touching on that is so much of the job. So if you do that well, yeah, it’ll make your life way easier and everyone’s life way easier.

00:28:26:20 – 00:28:46:23
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, I think so. I d I feel like I’m a big supporter of being hands on and creating designs and doing things, but I nowadays I almost feel like that as the easy part. I feel that the entire all this other soft skills and all this having this peace of mind that you are connecting here and there, you’re making decisions based on this.

00:28:46:23 – 00:29:04:01
Amanda Maykot
There’s in this data interpretation or because you had this meeting with this person, I think that makes you someone it’s kind of getting more and more ready to grow into more senior positions and then leadership roles and then heads of roles. And then you have this case for me right now.

00:29:04:01 – 00:29:16:10
Ellen Bennett
That’s great. So I mean, that just to get into your big juicy brain, is there any podcast or any anything that you listen to, that kind of day to day really influences you and your work?

00:29:16:16 – 00:30:01:22
Amanda Maykot
Yeah, there is one podcast that I’ve been really addicted to and I wait every week for the next episode and it’s really great. It’s really inspiring. Not design related, but leadership, you know, wellbeing, female questions and business as well. It’s call we can do Hard Things by Glennon Doyle and it’s so inspiring. They see life in such a humane and open way and honestly, it’s about like bringing yourself out there, your true self, and you’re understanding your purpose and how do you do even like business or even your personal life, but with this honesty that this is why you believe in knowing that you can do hard things.

00:30:01:22 – 00:30:25:18
Amanda Maykot
Basically, I think the biggest message is pretty much the title of the podcast. We can do hard things and we can. So probably if I’m here in Australia today and working with what I’m working and when I look back at my past and everything that I’ve been through, I can do hard things and you as well. And as far as we know, our potential I think, yeah, we have like a really good journey ahead of us.

00:30:25:20 – 00:30:29:18
Ellen Bennett
Oh, I’ll have to check that out. I haven’t heard of that one. That’s great.

00:30:29:20 – 00:30:59:13
Amanda Maykot
I’ll send you one specifically. It’s with We can do hard things with a bazillion said Joy Bazaar and John. She is the former CMO for Netflix. Before that she was CMO for Apple. Before that she was CMO for Pepsi. Amazing. And she is this inspiring woman. She is just like amazing in what she has just released. Sorry, launched a new book called The Urgent Life, which I’m Dying to buy.

00:30:59:13 – 00:31:21:06
Amanda Maykot
But it’s I think it was an it was in it’s like in Australia yet in this talk between the three of them it’s like Glennon Doyle, her wife, which is called I don’t remember the name Amy, I think, and Deadpool’s on the St John. It’s one of the most inspiring talks that I’ve had like about this self-confidence. Believe in yourself seeing that you can do hard things, looking back in your journey and saying, Wow, I’m really okay.

00:31:21:07 – 00:31:25:08
Ellen Bennett
Well, I know what I’m listening to on my commute.

00:31:25:09 – 00:31:27:13
Amanda Maykot
It’s in. Oh my gosh, a little love it.

00:31:27:16 – 00:31:32:22
Ellen Bennett
And is there any other mentors or business leaders that inspire you?

00:31:33:00 – 00:32:06:07
Amanda Maykot
That’s I love this question again, but that’s a really tricky one because that’s something that I’ve been reflecting a lot lately. During my career, I didn’t have many mentors. I had some really good leaders. I had great directors, most of them men, which is really interesting. And that’s something that when I started to realize, when I struggle with burnout a few years ago, I started to realize that I didn’t have any sort of kind of conversations where with any women in power in a position of power.

00:32:06:11 – 00:32:28:11
Amanda Maykot
So I wasn’t no one will understand me as a woman, as an immigrant, as as a mom of two, and all the struggles that that would be like for someone’s life struggles and perks. I mean, it’s great, but it changes your life, right? So I feel that I didn’t have this kind of balance between, you know, female directors and male directors.

00:32:28:17 – 00:32:49:09
Amanda Maykot
I had one really inspiring female director once she was probably the one that told me that I was nine. I was not supposed to be in a designer role anymore. I was supposed to be in a leadership position. I supposed to be in kind of a meetings where with executives and discussing like the future of projects and the future of that was back in Brazil.

00:32:49:11 – 00:33:09:20
Amanda Maykot
In Australia, I didn’t have the chance to find a mentor yet, but that’s something that I have on my list on. I want to make this part of my routine. I want to have someone that I can talk, that I can find guidance from, that I can, you know, get back with my questions on how do I influence more or how well, how do I build trust with my team?

00:33:09:22 – 00:33:39:19
Amanda Maykot
How do I overcome this or that difficulty? I never had this relationship formalised in my career, even though I was mentor for other people in some programs. I was never a mentee. And that’s something that I really, I really I really want to have. So if I can give an advice to anyone that’s listening to this one, it’s like, go find a mentor or someone that inspires you and someone that is doing their work in the way that you would like to do too.

00:33:40:01 – 00:33:55:12
Amanda Maykot
So yeah, and feed from this person from whatever they can share with you. So you can drive your career, You can make informed decisions on how you want to drive your career. You just don’t go with the flow. It’s going to help you to have it go to the direction that you are.

00:33:55:16 – 00:34:21:23
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, yeah. I think that’s the best bit about having a mentor is you learn from their mistakes and you’re able to. Yeah, it just it helps you steer the way a little bit easier. And having that sounding board is really important. So yeah, if anyone knows of any cool people in the product space that would like to have a mentor hours and then eventually reach out, I’ll hook you guys up.

00:34:21:23 – 00:34:45:00
Ellen Bennett
But yeah, that’s, that’s great. And that’s so cool that you really, really influential person in design leadership and you’re still craving that mentorship because I think you’re right. Like you always need someone who’s been in your shoes before to help you, help you navigate what you’re doing. Yeah. Even top leaders need someone to support them.

00:34:45:01 – 00:35:05:16
Amanda Maykot
Absolutely. And I think it’s it’s good to understand that this support, this guidance doesn’t need to come from someone with exactly your background. So it’s not that you as a designer should look at other designers and you know, I want to learn from the other designer because I want to take is exactly the same path. That’s not true.

00:35:05:17 – 00:35:29:09
Amanda Maykot
You can learn from as soon as you what we discussed before, as soon as you realise that you are not someone that only knows how to make things beautiful or that only knows how to make things to interact, to you know, how to make good experiences as soon as you are there said that you were someone with a whole range of skills that goes from communication to management to planning to whatever else.

00:35:29:11 – 00:35:54:09
Amanda Maykot
You can get this mentorship from anyone, from someone with a business background or someone with a product background at design background. I mean, since as long as this person has conducted their life in a way that inspires you. So if they have like if you’re looking for someone that struggles with situations like, I don’t know, work life balance or they are really good influencing, I think that will be the person for you.

00:35:54:10 – 00:36:02:07
Amanda Maykot
And that’s how I try to filter down potential mentors. I’m not looking into the design field only I’m trying to expand. That is.

00:36:02:07 – 00:36:14:07
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, that that’s so cool. I never really thought of it like that. I just thought, yeah, you follow a mentor so they can help you do the things that they’ve done, but that necessarily might not fit with everyone. So yeah.

00:36:14:13 – 00:36:35:03
Amanda Maykot
That could, that can be the case. That can definitely be the case. Like you want to if you want a very clear direction. Yeah. You go to your leader, your field if you want to. I don’t know. Just understand like how to be a better professional. You explore ambitions and create your career journey. You probably graduate. You can go to graduating design and end up being a CEO or something else.

00:36:35:05 – 00:36:39:20
Amanda Maykot
So yeah, whatever goals in your path, I think we can learn anything and we can do.

00:36:39:22 – 00:36:59:19
Ellen Bennett
We can do how things. Well, on that note, Amanda, I just want to say a big, big, big thank you for joining us today. I’ve learned so much and I’m sure that everyone else has too. And yet thank you again and hopefully will hook you up with a mentor.

00:36:59:21 – 00:37:15:09
Amanda Maykot
That would be great if you have. Yeah, if I could find a mentor. If you guys want to recommend as I meant as a mentor to someone. That’s absolutely. All right. Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure. Lovely talking to you, too. Thank you, Ellen.