On this episode of the NTP Podcast, our host Ellen Bennett sits down with Amanda Chan, Lead Product Designer at Lyka, to discuss the mission of Lyka in creating nutritional food for dogs. Amanda sheds light on the misconceptions surrounding the pet food industry and how Lyka is working to provide transparency and quality in the products they create.

Amanda also shares her journey and career in technology, highlighting her passion for creating products that make a positive impact on people and their pets.

Listen now on your favourite podcast platform.

Listen to the Podcast

Watch the Episode

Show Notes

Here you can source all the things we have talked about in the podcast whether that be books, events, meet-up groups and what’s new in the Newcastle tech scene.

• • Amanda’s LinkedIn
  • Lyka’s LinkedIn
  • Lyka’s Website

Find all local Newcastle Technology Events

• Event’s Page

00:00:20:07 – 00:00:33:00
Ellen Bennett
So thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Digitally Diverse. Today, we are joined by the wonderful Amanda Chan. She is the lead product designer at Lyka. Thank you for joining us, Amanda.

00:00:33:02 – 00:00:36:22
Amanda Chan
No worries. So good to be here. Thanks for having me.

00:00:36:25 – 00:00:43:14
Ellen Bennett
So tell us a little bit more about your story and your journey. How how have you gotten to where you are?

00:00:43:16 – 00:01:09:04
Amanda Chan
Been a bit of a crazy ride, I think. So I actually started off not in tech or in product or design, and it was only from recruitment. Actually, when I met a lot of designers, I realized this this is what I wanted to do. And then at the time, I was also trying to build my own company on the side, and I was like, Oh, this is actually a job where I can design things and build things, and that’s how I got into product.

00:01:09:07 – 00:01:38:14
Amanda Chan
So yeah, it’s been super weird. So I studied marketing and management, so totally different and I started off in a sales and marketing role and it was in the tech space. There’s a lot of talking to clients and then I moved around, moved to London and then moved to Australia and I got into recruitment and that’s when I kind of started meeting people in tech, understood tech a bit more and I decided to change into this area that I have now.

00:01:38:21 – 00:01:58:26
Amanda Chan
And since then I’ve been mostly working in startups from seed to companies that are, I guess, bigger. The biggest companies probably seek. But my bread and butter is probably startups scale ups being super exciting just because I think in startups you kind of get to do everything and yeah, it’s probably where I enjoy the most.

00:01:58:28 – 00:02:10:07
Ellen Bennett
Amazing. Yeah. And I think people get addicted to startups and that pace and the the ups and the downs. So tell us a little bit more about Lyka and where you’re at at the moment.

00:02:10:09 – 00:02:29:15
Amanda Chan
Yeah, sure. I’ve been at like it for a year now. I think it’ll be a year in a couple of weeks and we’ve grown so much. I think when I joined the product team was about five people were over 20 people. Now within a year, which is a crazy growth. And then when I joined, I was the only product designer.

00:02:29:17 – 00:02:49:11
Amanda Chan
Right now I’m leading a team of two, soon to be three people and we’ve got different squads and yeah, there’s a lot of growth. I think where I can’t get it, I’m like thinking about, well, what’s the product that we’re launching? I’m like, Oh, I can’t talk about all of it, all that. But since I’ve grown, we’ve also launched Supplements for Dogs, which is really cool.

00:02:49:15 – 00:02:53:25
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, for the people that don’t know me. Tell us a little bit more about what Lyka does.

00:02:53:28 – 00:03:18:12
Amanda Chan
Yeah, definitely. So Lyka is a pet wellness company at the moment. We focus on dogs. Our founder has a dog named Lyka, and this is kind of how she founded the company and Lyka, the dog had kind of health issues at the start and she wanted to make sure that like us getting the best nutrition And so she kind of just cooked food for Lyka, the dog, and realized there’s a gap in the market.

00:03:18:12 – 00:03:28:03
Amanda Chan
And that’s kind of how like the company is born. So we do meals for dogs that are whole food, human grade, and then we also do treats and supplements.

00:03:28:06 – 00:03:35:02
Ellen Bennett
So cool. So it’s like a subscription based thing as well, right? So it’s kind of like hellofresh for dogs.

00:03:35:04 – 00:03:36:06
Amanda Chan
Yes.

00:03:36:09 – 00:03:57:07
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, I love that. It’s such a good idea of a lot of people want to make those really healthy homemade products for their pups. So yeah, I think it’s such a such a great gap in the market for for you guys to jump into. But yeah, that’s fantastic. So, Amanda, what kind of problems are you guys solving at Lyka at the moment?

00:03:57:09 – 00:04:19:09
Amanda Chan
Yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of problems, but I think one of the main ones that we’re looking at is education. So I actually realized when I joined that there’s a lot of things I didn’t know about dog nutrition. I’ve got a dog and I used to just kind of cook chicken or carrots, celery for her. But I didn’t realize that there’s so much more food that she could be eating.

00:04:19:12 – 00:04:41:21
Amanda Chan
And I think a lot of dog parents also don’t know about this. And there’s a lot of myths around Kibbles. So that’s one of the big problems that we’re trying to tackle, is how do we educate dog owners on these myths that they’re hearing that they’ve known for years? I think what has also been happening is that we’ve had Kibbles for so many years.

00:04:41:21 – 00:05:06:29
Amanda Chan
People just buy it because it’s a habit, It’s convenient, it’s cheap, I guess cheaper, a lot cheaper than a lot the Whole Foods. So we’re trying to figure out how do we educate people on when there’s a food that can stay on the shelf for a year or two? Is that good for dogs? If not, what are the better alternatives and what dogs actually need for them to live a happier, healthier life?

00:05:07:01 – 00:05:24:08
Amanda Chan
And one of the biggest myths that I led when I joined was that Kibbles doesn’t actually clean teeth. And that was one of the things that I really thought was something good for the dogs. And we’re trying to get that across so people understand a lot more about how how the whole nutrition world works for the adults.

00:05:24:10 – 00:05:46:02
Ellen Bennett
Mm hmm. Yeah. So like, yeah, just making sure that uses and customers are aware of, you know, there is, there is some better things out there that could be, could be more beneficial to that Pops pups love that. Yeah definitely So and you mentioned as well before that your team has grown substantially in the last 12 months. What kind of culture do you guys have at Lyka?

00:05:46:03 – 00:05:47:29
Ellen Bennett
What does that look like?

00:05:48:01 – 00:06:08:21
Amanda Chan
Yeah, it’s been very exciting. I think with this amount of growth, there’s always going to be teething issues or I think growing pains. And I think there’s it’s it’s good and bad. I love it because I love the chaos and start ups and it means we’re putting in a lot of systems to make sure we can run faster.

00:06:08:25 – 00:06:28:03
Amanda Chan
So the culture, I think, is is changing in a good way. I think we were a little bit more ad hoc before, but now that we’ve got a lot more people, we’re putting in a guest structure, but we’re still keeping the the kind of start up mentality. So we still get to jump onto projects that we want to do that we’re passionate about.

00:06:28:06 – 00:06:44:20
Amanda Chan
If we see a problem, we get to propose to fix it, back it up with data and actually do something about it. But I think there’s a lot more understanding of what each department is, what what we’re responsible for. So a really cool time.

00:06:44:22 – 00:07:04:10
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, I know. That’s super exciting. And you’re right, every every startup does go through those growth pains and it’s great that you guys are prioritizing that efficiency aspect because, yeah, a lot of people, a lot of companies get tripped up at this point. So it’s great to hear that you guys are all full steam ahead.

00:07:04:13 – 00:07:05:14
Amanda Chan
Yeah.

00:07:05:16 – 00:07:15:00
Ellen Bennett
I guess in a more personal level, did did you kind of like go through any higher education or anything prior to moving into the tech industry?

00:07:15:02 – 00:07:24:01
Amanda Chan
Yeah, to my degree. And it was Bachelor of Commerce. I did do a general assembly course and user experience.

00:07:24:07 – 00:07:31:17
Ellen Bennett
What kind of what was your main takeaways with that? Did did you feel like that would kind of really set you up for success?

00:07:31:19 – 00:08:05:24
Amanda Chan
I think it did in a way, but not not in the traditional sense, because I think a lot of it is you have to keep doing research on your own. There’s a lot of reading outside of that course. I think the course what it did was give me confidence to know that I can do it. But a lot of I think product design is the softer skills, like stakeholder management, working with other people, understanding what a developer does, what a product manager does, and then how do we get and communicate the points across via design Or sometimes it’s even just talking.

00:08:05:27 – 00:08:09:20
Amanda Chan
The course helped, but there’s still a lot more work outside of it.

00:08:09:22 – 00:08:29:21
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, yeah, that’s so true. A lot of a lot of the job is like that connection pace and being able to communicate your ideas and back yourself up with the data. So yeah, when I speak with a lot of people that have done, you know, a general assembly course or an academy course, it gives them a really great foundation.

00:08:29:21 – 00:08:37:22
Ellen Bennett
But those skills that you get on the job are just as important or if not more important. So no, that’s that’s great.

00:08:37:24 – 00:08:48:19
Amanda Chan
It’s actually interesting because in recruiting you can kind of see who has been taught by you like their portfolios are very similar, very structure way of teaching it.

00:08:48:26 – 00:09:12:14
Ellen Bennett
It definitely has an esthetic, that’s for sure. And by no means is that like a bad thing. It’s just like, yeah, it’s, it’s just they’ve got to look. Is there like you mentioned before that, you know, you do have a background in recruiting and that’s how you got, you know, absorbed into the tech industry. But what was was they like a big catalyst for for you wanting to move into tech?

00:09:12:17 – 00:09:23:24
Amanda Chan
I think the biggest thing was I love creating and I think as much as I love recruitment, I like on the side, I’d always be trying to make something and I just wanted to turn that into a job.

00:09:23:26 – 00:09:31:25
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. And do that kind of come from, like you mentioned that you had a side hustle while you were still in that role. What what did that look like?

00:09:31:27 – 00:10:00:22
Amanda Chan
It was a comfort. It’s not life any more, but it’s a marketplace for emerging artists and then restaurants and buyers. Basically the concept was out of to put that on the walls. People that gone to the cafes or restaurants can scan a code and buy the art and then take it home. So kind of the hope was that everyone would have a win win because normally artists, they have to spend a lot of money to find an exhibition space.

00:10:00:27 – 00:10:19:29
Amanda Chan
Restaurants have to pay for their art, and people don’t normally see emerging artists unless they look for galleries or exhibition spaces. Yeah, that was that was kind of the hope. It was a lot harder to execute than I thought because I only had weekends to work on it. And then COVID hit and the cafes I was exhibiting in, they closed down.

00:10:20:00 – 00:10:24:04
Amanda Chan
So yeah, yeah, yeah, unfortunately.

00:10:24:07 – 00:10:39:06
Ellen Bennett
But that’s, I mean, it’s such a great idea. And the fact that you were able to jump on it, you know, it’s a win win for everyone. And did you like kind of meet people throughout that journey that like paved the way for you to really get going in tech?

00:10:39:09 – 00:10:59:00
Amanda Chan
I think I met a lot more restaurant owners than artists. I think what paved the way was actually when I was recruiting and candidates would tell me about kind of the work that I’ve been doing, and it was just understanding it. And when I did the course, they encouraged a lot of networking and just going to a lot of meetups helped actually.

00:10:59:03 – 00:11:19:10
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, yeah. That’s that’s the number one thing that I love to, to encourage people to do as well is, you know, it’s all about who you know. And it’s, it sounds really crunchy and it sounds really old school. But, you know, if people are more willing to to help out the people that are within their community and are active in the design community.

00:11:19:10 – 00:11:29:15
Ellen Bennett
So, yeah, I mean, is there is there any other advice that you would give to people just starting out in design or thinking about starting out in design?

00:11:29:18 – 00:11:49:17
Amanda Chan
Yeah, if you’re looking to switch careers, I think just do it. It took me so long. I think I thought about it for a really long time and, and there’s a lot of things that held me back before I changed because it’s like I’m going to have to start all over again. It’s something that I don’t know. But once that change has happened, it just makes sense.

00:11:49:19 – 00:12:09:06
Amanda Chan
And once you’ve made the commitment, it just just works. I think the other thing is network networking. Like you said, that really helps. That’s how I got my first job. It was from someone that I knew that was someone that they worked with. And so going to a lot of meet ups, I got to understand how companies worked and people would just introduce you to jobs that are available.

00:12:09:06 – 00:12:11:05
Amanda Chan
So networking.

00:12:11:07 – 00:12:15:08
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. Do you, do you currently like go to any networking events yourself?

00:12:15:10 – 00:12:21:10
Amanda Chan
Not at the moment. I think since COVID, I’ve been like just, you know, I should go again.

00:12:21:10 – 00:12:43:28
Ellen Bennett
But there is there is quite a few like really great virtual ones as well. I really love the girls in Tech Australia Group do I think monthly virtual meet ups where, you know, they’ll have their meet up in Sydney or Melbourne, but they’ll livestream it as well. So that’s really great for me. Like I’m in Newcastle, so I probably wouldn’t be able to make most of them in Sydney or Melbourne.

00:12:43:28 – 00:12:54:20
Ellen Bennett
So yeah, that’s, that’s a really good one that I, I like to recommend people just check out and you can, you can stay home and in your jammies if you still, if you still want to check it out.

00:12:54:22 – 00:12:58:29
Amanda Chan
Yeah, that’s what I do sometimes. Like turn the camera off for my audience.

00:12:59:02 – 00:13:17:05
Ellen Bennett
Booth Perfect. Yeah. And I guess like for like education wise, is there, like, now that you’ve gone down the path, would you recommend that to someone over perhaps going through a, you know, three or sometimes four year degree?

00:13:17:07 – 00:13:46:21
Amanda Chan
Great question. If I think the goal is to be a UX designer, product designer, or I know they do developer courses as well, I think yes, super valuable. I think uni is more about learning how to learn as opposed to actual content and gears, like really preparing you. This is what you’re going to do. And the job. I think the goal is to be a UX designer.

00:13:46:24 – 00:13:47:12
Amanda Chan
Yeah.

00:13:47:14 – 00:14:18:14
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, I think yeah, it’s, it’s slowly getting to that point. And as for someone myself who did a three year university degree in design, it’s Yeah, that what you said about how learning how to learn is very spot on. I’ve never thought of it that way. Oh yeah, definitely more theoretical, which is sometimes fantastic. It’s really great to know the the foundations and the basis of design at a very, very like foundational level.

00:14:18:17 – 00:14:56:28
Ellen Bennett
But if you’re wanting to, you know, get kickstarted into, into design at a very technical level a lot of the time. What Well, for me anyway, what I learned in first year was out of date by the time I graduated. So it’s these like really, really quick turnaround General Assembly courses or Academy X. I know there’s plenty of others, you know, that that quick turnaround is probably quite good because you’re getting you’re being taught by people in the industry as well who know what is really current and topical and like what people, what hiring managers are looking for.

00:14:57:00 – 00:15:07:03
Ellen Bennett
So yeah, that’s it’s very interesting and it’s whenever I speak to people about that, it’s pretty 5050. So yeah, be interesting to see how it goes.

00:15:07:03 – 00:15:28:07
Amanda Chan
In the next few years. Yeah, I think the other thing is like once you get into the industry and you feel like, Oh, I need to top up, you can also still do a degree part time to be like, I want to be a product manager now or I want to lead a team where you do need management experience or more theoretical understanding, then you can always do it on the side.

00:15:28:09 – 00:15:51:03
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, 100%. And there’s so many, especially online now, especially over the last few years, there’s so many things that you can do after hours or on the weekends that you couldn’t we couldn’t do five, ten years ago. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a great time to be in tech because you can pick up so many so many things quite quickly.

00:15:51:05 – 00:15:53:12
Ellen Bennett
So. Sure. So, Amanda, what.

00:15:53:12 – 00:15:53:24
Amanda Chan
Lets you.

00:15:53:24 – 00:15:58:20
Ellen Bennett
Up and inspires you to do that work that you are doing at Lyka?

00:15:58:23 – 00:16:26:10
Amanda Chan
Yeah, I think specifically at Lyka we’re extremely mission driven, which is awesome. I think about like 80% of the people at work have dogs or pets of some sort. And so I think when we’re working, we’re really thinking how do we prolong the lives of our pets and other people’s pets? And that really excites me. But if we’re talking about like specifically inspiration, it’s been it’s actually been a bit of a journey.

00:16:26:10 – 00:16:51:20
Amanda Chan
So I think back in when I first started working, I would always try and find inspirations like watch YouTube. I don’t know, go on Pinterest, look for people that I admire, I love prejudice, and I realize these laws. The only way that I could get out of it and find inspiration was just to do something. And that’s what really motivates me now.

00:16:51:20 – 00:17:05:26
Amanda Chan
So whenever I’m on inspired or unmotivated, I’m just like, I have to start something, do the simplest thing first. Once I get started, then inspiration comes. Instead of waiting. It’s a lot more proactive and it usually works.

00:17:05:29 – 00:17:34:12
Ellen Bennett
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that’s yeah, even even just in life in general. Like, if you’re not motivated to do something, just getting started and getting that momentum going, it helps so much, right? Like, and yes, there’s always a time and a place to have on Pinterest for a casual scroll, but when you, when you actually have to like get into, get into the work, you’ve just kind of got to jump in and it’s going to feel gross and slow for the first little bit.

00:17:34:12 – 00:17:38:25
Ellen Bennett
But then, yeah, once it gets cranking, then you get to go.

00:17:38:28 – 00:17:44:03
Amanda Chan
Yeah, I love the web momentum of like once I get out of that, I’m just so happy.

00:17:44:05 – 00:17:57:04
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, Yeah. And I guess, like, is that been like a bit of a speed bump for you in your career or has there been any, any times that you’ve kind of had to put on the brakes and realize that something wasn’t working?

00:17:57:07 – 00:18:22:25
Amanda Chan
Yeah, I think there’s probably quite a few times of. One of the things ones I can remember is probably when what kind of died. So the side project that I was working on, I think because I was, I had so much confidence or belief that it would work. And when it didn’t, it kind of I lost a lot of my confidence, I think.

00:18:22:29 – 00:18:54:09
Amanda Chan
And that kind of seeks the other parts of work where I was like, Can I actually do this if I can’t even make this thing happen? Do I even know what I’m doing? And yeah, it was pretty scary. But I also think it humbled me a lot to know that I’m going to fail a lot. Moving forward. I think seeing those failures and turning them into learnings really helped because I was after maybe like a year, I was like, okay, it’s actually fine because I can take those learnings and apply it somewhere else.

00:18:54:11 – 00:18:55:07
Amanda Chan
Mm hmm.

00:18:55:09 – 00:19:08:21
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, I guess in the moment it feels quite stingy and yeah, that, that when you have to like actually face the fact that like, okay, this probably isn’t going to go any further.

00:19:08:29 – 00:19:09:21
Amanda Chan
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:09:24 – 00:19:19:13
Ellen Bennett
Is you’re able to look back on that now and you know, if, if that hadn’t happened you probably wouldn’t be where, where you’re, where you’re at right now. Right.

00:19:19:18 – 00:19:27:03
Amanda Chan
Yeah. I could have been a founder of thought. No.

00:19:27:06 – 00:19:37:29
Ellen Bennett
You with all the dogs all day and help out pets and you’re working on a really great product. And yeah, I think every everything kind of leads you to where to where you’re at.

00:19:38:00 – 00:19:39:07
Amanda Chan
Not 100%.

00:19:39:09 – 00:19:44:21
Ellen Bennett
Put that down to one chapter and look at look at where you’re at right now.

00:19:44:23 – 00:20:02:07
Amanda Chan
Yeah. And I think the other thing is realizing that if it doesn’t work out, it’s it’s probably just timing. Like I probably didn’t have the right skill sets at that time. So maybe later on, if I did start it up again and I had better skills, maybe it’ll work better. So just accepting that it’s a part of it.

00:20:02:10 – 00:20:27:09
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, Yeah. There’s, there’s so many, so many things that go into making something like quote unquote successful. Like it you’re right skills and you personally is only one you know, tiny portion of what makes something take off. But, you know, COVID probably had something to do with that as well. And like a whole a whole bunch of other things.

00:20:27:09 – 00:20:49:09
Ellen Bennett
So, yeah, it’s yeah, it is quite humbling when things don’t necessarily go to plan because you know it at the end of the day, yes, it does have something to do with you, but also it has a lot to do with a whole bunch of other outside factors. So now that’s that’s great that you can like acknowledge that and move on from it.

00:20:49:11 – 00:21:03:10
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, but I guess is there anything that kind of going back to what we’re previously talking about is there anything that that you do regularly to kind of keep up that motivation and like productivity or self-care?

00:21:03:12 – 00:21:23:27
Amanda Chan
Yeah, I’m this kind of relates to the momentum thing that I was talking about that use that actually momentum. So when I kind of want to get inspired, I usually exercise that sounds really lame and boring, or when I’m like in the low, I’m just like, okay, I need to go for a run or go to the gym.

00:21:24:00 – 00:21:42:22
Amanda Chan
But usually motivates me or inspires me. I watch a lot of YouTube and listen to podcasts. My favorite podcasts is Hidden Brain. It’s it’s not products, but it’s psychology. And they talk about a lot of the theories I guess, that we can use in product.

00:21:42:25 – 00:21:59:14
Ellen Bennett
Yeah, that’s I have heard really great things about that, about that podcast Hidden Brain. It’s and it’s always good to to take on content that’s not 100% related to work right Because I think if we all did that we’d go crazy.

00:21:59:16 – 00:22:01:11
Amanda Chan
Yeah.

00:22:01:14 – 00:22:06:05
Ellen Bennett
Is there any other like media or podcasts that you listen to?

00:22:06:08 – 00:22:21:07
Amanda Chan
There’s a guy I can’t remember his name now, but he makes really short and fast. I think it’s TikTok and Instagram videos about how to prototype things on Figma. I’ll have to find the name.

00:22:21:10 – 00:22:25:29
Ellen Bennett
Yes, I get. Maybe we can put that in the description if we remember it before.

00:22:26:02 – 00:22:35:10
Amanda Chan
You left, before he always starts the video with like how to do something super fast and he actually does it in like 30 seconds or something.

00:22:35:12 – 00:23:00:24
Ellen Bennett
So cool. Yeah, that kind of stuff. It just it’s so easy to take on that content and put it into practice straight away. Super handy. Yeah. And yeah. Do you, do you kind of have like any, any mentors that like or perhaps, you know, just from your career in general that like that you like to talk to or gain mentorship or inspiration from?

00:23:00:27 – 00:23:34:04
Amanda Chan
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of really smart and inspirational people at like they’re not I guess strictly what you would call mentors, but you can kind of go to them for anything. We’ve got a new CPO CTO because this title and also his wife also. So that’s Marina and they’re both really good at, I guess the really strategic and give out really interesting advice about how how we should be working and a company like this.

00:23:34:06 – 00:24:05:21
Amanda Chan
They’ve worked with a lot of scale ups and large companies. Yeah, it’s been super interesting and I think there’s also other people. I’ve been really lucky. I’ve had some really cool bosses or really caring bosses in the past. One of them is actually from recruitment Sam Watts, and she’s extremely inspiring. I think she kind of taught me how to care for my work and I think she she founded the company and she kind of still works to make sure it runs properly.

00:24:05:21 – 00:24:13:26
Amanda Chan
She’ll still recruit as needed. And I think that kind of tenacity is not often seen. And I guess other places.

00:24:13:28 – 00:24:32:03
Ellen Bennett
It showcases people’s leadership skills when they’re still on the tools. Right. And that goes for like any industry. So yeah, that’s great that you’re able to have that that leadership and that mentorship. That’s something that’s so important that I think a lot of leaders sometimes get jaded throughout their career and they don’t want to be on the tools anymore.

00:24:32:03 – 00:24:49:10
Ellen Bennett
And in amongst the weeds with with the so called like the regular people. But it’s that’s really nice to hear that, you know, you’ve got like a really solid group of people behind you who are like cheering you on.

00:24:49:13 – 00:25:08:14
Amanda Chan
Yeah, definitely. And just on the tools thing, I think it’s so helpful even for people that are in management or even more strategic leadership teams to sometimes go back into the weeds and figure, Oh, these are these are actually the problems when you’re on the tools. So I know how to manage people, how to direct people.

00:25:08:16 – 00:25:34:25
Ellen Bennett
Yeah. And they know like what your priorities are when you’re actually doing the work instead of, you know, that that finish line stuff. There’s so much that, you know, you can sometimes forget when you’re not when you’re not doing the work as well. So no, that’s great. Cool. And one quick question for you, Amanda. If if you could give your younger self any career advice, what would that be?

00:25:34:27 – 00:26:11:00
Amanda Chan
I would tell myself that I need to believe in myself. I think that’s been a thing that held me back a little bit. Sometimes what happens a lot is when when I do believe that I can do something, it actually happens. And as soon as I lose that confidence, everything else kind of falls apart. So it’s just keeping keeping that motivation going by believing that I can do it.

00:26:11:03 – 00:26:21:03
Ellen Bennett
And does that does that happen by like relying on your support system at work or how does that usually happen for you?

00:26:21:06 – 00:26:45:03
Amanda Chan
I think yes, support system really helps. The other thing that I’ve learned recently is to celebrate wins. I don’t think I’ve done that in the past. In the past, if I didn’t succeed at something or something didn’t go my way, I would be like, what was wrong with it? And maybe sometimes beat myself up mentally. I think I’m like trying to tackle the problem by looking at everything that I’ve done wrong.

00:26:45:06 – 00:26:57:20
Amanda Chan
But what really helps us every time something does go well to cheer myself on and be like, okay, I’ve done something good, and that gives me a boost of, I guess, motivation or momentum.

00:26:57:23 – 00:27:21:19
Ellen Bennett
Mm hmm. Yeah, Yeah. And you’re right. It’s it’s all well and good to take those learnings of things that don’t necessarily go super well. But the same can be said for, you know, things that go incredibly well, be like, Hey, what, what actually worked here and what can I, what can I take from this to, to build up the next project or the next product or the next feature.

00:27:21:26 – 00:27:29:00
Ellen Bennett
So yes, it’s all about balance and yes, heck yes. You deserve to celebrate all those wins.

00:27:29:03 – 00:27:32:05
Amanda Chan
Yeah. Even the tiny ones.

00:27:32:07 – 00:27:47:00
Ellen Bennett
Yes, even the small ones are super important. But thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. Amanda, I learned so, so much. You know, really passionate about your work and about your craft. And yeah, I’m just really grateful to have you on today.

00:27:47:03 – 00:27:49:05
Amanda Chan
Thanks so much, Alan. Thanks for having me. That was really.